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110%er [8009]
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Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 4:11 PM
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in the ACC, but we would be irrelevant in the Big 12 or SEC.
Other Clemson supporters who favor staying in the ACC use the same argument.
So answer this... If the ACC is the best situation for winning why aren't schools from the Big 12, SEC, or Big 10 trying to join the ACC?
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CU Guru [1493]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 4:21 PM
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Because winning the ACC really helped our rep last year. Sheesh. It's a lose, lose situation in this conference.
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All-TigerNet [10352]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 4:25 PM
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Yeah Walt is so relevant in his conference isn't he.
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Oculus Spirit [83183]
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Tradition?
May 16, 2012, 4:28 PM
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I think we'd do fine though in another conference.
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110%er [5978]
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I thougt about that argument earlier today. ACC supporters
May 16, 2012, 4:30 PM
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say stay because it's an easier path to the playoffs, we can't compete with the SEC and BigXII, etc. Well, assuming we win the ACC and get in the playoff, what are we supposed to do then when we are competing against the best from those conferences. The road to the championship will be through the SEC and BigXII whether we're in one or not.
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CU Medallion [55581]
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Re: I thougt about that argument earlier today. ACC supporters
May 16, 2012, 4:43 PM
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As humans we fight or play to our competition. If we were in the sec or big X11,we would win. Just look at when we play tougher teams, we play better. We have just as good of players as any of the other conferences do. They were struggling to recruit most of the same players we have.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: I thougt about that argument earlier today. ACC supporters
May 17, 2012, 9:27 AM
[ in reply to I thougt about that argument earlier today. ACC supporters ] |
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I agree...
and walt does always the goal should be to get there, but after this year I say thats a bunch of BS. The goal should be to win it..
After what happened this year I think most reasonable Clemson fans would rather not have gone to BCS than get 70 hung on us. If we are not good enough to compete in ANY conference then we need to get better, not play weaker competition.
who wants to win the ACC every year and get in the playoff to be the punchline and butt of jokes because everyone knows how bad our conference is.
not only that but screw the ACC for the way they have treated us. Swofford is a ***&*^%... screw them.. best thing that could happen under his watch is for Clemson and FSU to leave and the other conferences to poach the rest of the ACC and the conference to implode..
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110%er [6577]
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ding ding ding!!! we have a winner***
May 16, 2012, 4:36 PM
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1st Rounder [629]
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Being in the SEC is one of the major reasons S. Carolina has
May 16, 2012, 4:42 PM
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gotten so much better. The other is Spurrier who probably wouldn't be there were they not in the SEC. It would take some time but we'd become better as well.
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CU Medallion [55581]
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Re: Being in the SEC is one of the major reasons S. Carolina has
May 16, 2012, 4:46 PM
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With the talent we have right now, Clemson could compete in any conference in just a very short while.
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All-TigerNet [11435]
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110%er [6108]
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SEC has virtually nothing to do with their "success"
May 16, 2012, 4:52 PM
[ in reply to Being in the SEC is one of the major reasons S. Carolina has ] |
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If it did, Ole Miss, Miss. St. Kentucky and Tenn would all be better than they currently are.
South Carolina has a great ( but arrogant ) head coach. The best coach they have ever had. They were in the SEC for 20 + years before they started "winning". Their accomplishments are winning the SEC East (one time) and beating Clemson 3 times in a row for the 1st time in 40 years. Not real winning if you ask me.
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All-American [554]
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Re: SEC has virtually nothing to do with their "success"
May 16, 2012, 9:02 PM
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We also have a great baseball coach and just hired what looks to be a very good basketball coach. The SEC has given us alot of resources we never had. The main thing, though, is our administration finally decided to fully support athletics. Our old administrations squandered our resources because they were not committed. Now we are. Thats why we are spending huge on facilities. Thats why we are hiring and will continue to hire big name coaches. And thats what separates us from those schools you name. They are not committed except for UK being committed to basketball, at which they excel. The SEC resources and mindframe is what has led to recent success and anyone who doesnt see that is willfully blind.
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Legend [16071]
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If you think the SEC gave you Ray Tanner then you...
May 17, 2012, 2:14 AM
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are the one that is blind my friend. And basketball?!? Clemson has never done ANYTHING in college basketball and we have done better than you for the past 30-40 years.
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All-American [554]
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Re: If you think the SEC gave you Ray Tanner then you...
May 17, 2012, 9:24 AM
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I'm not sure you read my post correctly.
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All-American [593]
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110%er [6108]
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your argument makes no sense. What does another school
May 16, 2012, 4:45 PM
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wanting to join the ACC have to do with Clemson winning in the SEC or Big 12 or Clemson being relevant?
USC at one time wanted in the ACC - the ACC snubbed them - lucky for them. West Virginia would have rather been in the ACC, they couldn't get an invite.
We are not going to be invited to the SEC or Big 10. I personally don't care to play Kansas, Kansas St. Texas Tech, Baylor, Iowa St. or TCU on a regular basis. Oklahoma St. and West Virginia are mildly interesting, but not any better than games against against UNC, NC State ,Maryland, Va Tech, Miami or Ga Tech.
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CU Medallion [55581]
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Re: your argument makes no sense. What does another school
May 16, 2012, 4:50 PM
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Sounds like the SEC or Big X11 scares you. Or would you rather just be the bully in the acc. B/C with the type of talent we're getting at Clemson, that is just what we're going to be.
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110%er [6108]
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Where in my post did you read I was "scared"?
May 16, 2012, 4:58 PM
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I'd love to play in the SEC - isn't going to happen however. The Big 10 isn't happening either.
That leaves the Big 12 or the ACC. I'd rather play teams I currently hate - i.e. NC, NC State, Ga Tech, Maryland, Va Tech, Miami - than teams I could care less about = Kansas, Kansas St. Iowa St. Baylor, TCU. I would like to play OU and Texas, but I also like playing UNC and Ga Tech within our own conference. I left FSU out because I certainly hope no one is advocating leaving the conference if FSU stays in the ACC. FSU is most assuredly going to stay in the ACC, despite the ramblings of a few disgruntled boosters.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: Where in my post did you read I was "scared"?
May 17, 2012, 9:21 AM
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you meam disgruntled board BOT members? lol
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110%er [6937]
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All-American [554]
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Re: your argument makes no sense. What does another school
May 16, 2012, 9:29 PM
[ in reply to Re: your argument makes no sense. What does another school ] |
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Being the bully in a bad conference may not be a horrible thing. However, if the ACC is weakened you may find it harder to get all that talent. Clemson is a very nice place with a great tradition and exciting gamedays so i am not going to be one of those gamecocks who pretends clemson doesnt have alot of appeal. Heck, i love going down to clemson. Still even with all that appeal how far can the perception swing towards the ACC being a second tier football conference before it starts hurting your recruiting. You may find yourself able to bully the ACC but not able to match up with the better teams in any of what will be the big 4 conferences.
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Legend [19210]
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110%er [6108]
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the point was, they wanted back in. I am well aware of
May 16, 2012, 4:59 PM
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USC's history in the ACC.
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110%er [8009]
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They wanted back in the ACC because at that time
May 16, 2012, 7:12 PM
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they were indy and thought the ACC was their best option. After the ACC said no, along comes the SEC. Had they thought the SEC was an option from the biginning they would not have looked at the ACC at all.
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Legend [16071]
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The SEC wasnt the same conference in the 80s as they are now***
May 17, 2012, 2:16 AM
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All-American [580]
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The SEC has always been very good. Maybe not as good
May 17, 2012, 5:54 AM
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as now. But quality nevertheless.
There was a vocal contingent of Carolina fans, primarily those who were around for the glory McGuire basketball days, who wanted back in the ACC. And I recall an ex-football player on the Board who wanted back in. But many have now passed on. Probably few under 50 now even remember being in the ACC. If there was a secret ballot among Carolina fans to vote on conference preference today, it would probably go SEC 99% to ACC 1%.
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CU Guru [1201]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 4:52 PM
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I don't think the Big 12 is quite as competitive as the SEC, so I think Clemson would do OK. It doesn't matter. If Clemson stay in the ACC it won't have enough revenue to even be competitive in the state of South Carolina.
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110%er [5627]
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yay ... we can win the ACC and be left out of a playoff and
May 16, 2012, 4:59 PM
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get to play the 12th place SEC team in the Peach-fila bowl
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110%er [6108]
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wrong. If we go undefeated in the ACC, we will be in
May 16, 2012, 5:05 PM
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a 4 team playoff - provided the ACC remains as it is currently configured.
Heck, we got to #5 last year (very over-rated if you were watching us play Maryland) until we laid an egg against Ga Tech.
We control our own destiny, period.
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110%er [5627]
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If FSU leaves, then ACC won't be a player ... period***
May 16, 2012, 5:16 PM
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110%er [6937]
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Re: I don't believe that for one minute. FSU is no better
May 16, 2012, 5:19 PM
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than State or VT.
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110%er [5627]
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ACC won't be one of the four super conferences...***
May 16, 2012, 5:21 PM
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Legend [16071]
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Without FSU the ACC still has VT, Miami, GT, and Clemson...
May 17, 2012, 2:25 AM
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Those football programs are respected nationally.
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110%er [6577]
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All-TigerNet [14751]
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The fatal flaw of the argument is that if there is a shuffle
May 16, 2012, 5:05 PM
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and we are left in a diluted ACC that is NOT part of the equation going forward, then winning it won't matter.
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CU Medallion [58574]
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And if that does happen, then we would almost certainly
May 16, 2012, 6:49 PM
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leave the ACC. I don't think there is any doubt about that. I think our remaining in the ACC hinges on the ACC's relevance going forward. If the ACC is not an equal player or does not have a seat at the table, then we will be gone.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: The fatal flaw of the argument is that if there is a shuffle
May 17, 2012, 9:14 AM
[ in reply to The fatal flaw of the argument is that if there is a shuffle ] |
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does winning it matter now?
we were good enough to win it this year and bad enough to get killed by the ##### and wvu...
good enough to win the conference but still a mediocre team as a whole
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Orange Blooded [3099]
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I agree IF the ACC...
May 16, 2012, 5:08 PM
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Teams stay the way they are and we can add 2 others to join. The problem i don't think it's going to stay the same and you don't want to be in a conference without FSU.
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All-American [580]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 5:16 PM
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I think you guys would do well in the Big 12 and should jump at the chance to move there. Screw the ACC. Who needs them? Life is too short.
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110%er [6937]
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Re: We have enough problems without a Coot trying to
May 16, 2012, 5:20 PM
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lead us astray.
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Orange Blooded [2303]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 5:49 PM
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Using your argument, why have four teams bolted from the Big 12 in the past two years, and they were not replaced with teams that are steps up?
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All-American [576]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 6:37 PM
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I will agree that WVU and TCU are not step ups compared to Nebraska or aTm, but I think it was two solid additions.
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110%er [8009]
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110%er [7650]
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Re: They left for "perceived" better conferences.
May 17, 2012, 9:15 AM
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big 12> pac10..
mo
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CU Medallion [58574]
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He's right for the most part. Everybody agrees that it would
May 16, 2012, 6:58 PM
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be easier to win the ACC than the Big 12 (except for a few nutjobs). As long as the winner of the ACC has a seat at the table (BCS birth or shot at a playoff), then we will be much more relevant on the national scene, as winning the ACC would be better than finishing down the ladder in the Big 12.
The argument then becomes "will the ACC have a seat at the table; will they remain relevant?". This argument becomes moot because if the answer is "no", it's a given that we will leave (in my opinion). If the answer is "yes", then we are better off staying put, and I'm sure we would.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: He's right for the most part. Everybody agrees that it would
May 17, 2012, 9:17 AM
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why better staying considering we could potentially make 10 million more a year there?
we made 22 million dollars less than the ##### last year ALONE. how do we continue to pay our assistants like we do and build facilities like we have to compete with teams in the SEC and Big 10 and Big 12 who ALL make more money than us and want to win therefore will put that money where there heart is..
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Fan [50]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 16, 2012, 7:58 PM
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Would you be happy dominating the WAC? the Big East?
Thump a bunch of nobodies and back door it to the playoffs like a Boise St?
If you're the Top team in the land you should win every game you play, and playing good/great teams makes you better.
Our schedule is quickly becoming a snoozer with non-competitve old ACC teams and northeast teams I REALLy don't care about.
The Big 12 has 2nd Tier teams that get into the Top 15 Top 10, unlike the ACC, and it'd be much more interesting to go to games to see us play them.
I mean WVU, KSU, TCU vs. Syracuse, BC, Wake, NCST, no contest.
And it'd get national attention. Thats another thing, we don't get any media spotlight for many of the teams we beat right now.
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Freshman [4]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 17, 2012, 12:43 AM
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> I mean WVU, KSU, TCU vs. Syracuse, BC, Wake, NCST,
> no contest.
>
> And it'd get national attention. Thats another
> r thing, we don't get any media spotlight for many of
> the teams we beat right now.
Getting national attention isn't necessarily a good thing all of the time. How do you expect to compete in a better conference such as the Big 12 if the team struggles to compete against the likes of Wake and NCST? We all witnessed the outcome of the WVU game which was an anomaly. It does no good to play on a national stage when you aren't competitive. How do you think the Gamecocks have such a national image of "irrelevance"? Its because of the last 10 years of getting dismantled by perennial SEC powers week in and week out on national television. Does Clemson really want to take a step back? And for those of you who will say they won't, get real. Although Clemson did win an ACC Championship this year, it didn't prove too much outside of being the best in the ACC. Although a win against Auburn is a victory against an SEC team, Auburn was the 6th best team in their conference (record wise). When playing SCAR and WVU, they got taken to the woodshed. If Clemson moved to the Big 12 for the 2012 season, it would finish 5th, maybe 4th at best.
The economics for this move don't make much sense. Sure, moving to the Big 12 will provide an annual increase in conference revenues, but at the same time Clemson will have to pay for their teams to travel half way across the country to play half of their games. Clemson is known for their traveling fan base, but can you honestly tell me that you will be making trips to Kansas, Texas, and Iowa for away games?
It is such a dumb move on so many levels.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 17, 2012, 9:11 AM
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"The economics for this move don't make much sense. Sure, moving to the Big 12 will provide an annual increase in conference revenues, but at the same time Clemson will have to pay for their teams to travel half way across the country to play half of their games. Clemson is known for their traveling fan base, but can you honestly tell me that you will be making trips to Kansas, Texas, and Iowa for away games?"
if you think traveling expenses have much weight in this then you don't have much commons sense...
We won our conference and no one gives a #### because everyone knows the conference sucks..
When we were dominating this conference most fans took more pride in beating OKlahoma or Penn. St.'s ### than they did winning the entire conference.
I remember switzer thinking OU would kill us just because of the conference we played in. Of course he was wrong, but my point remains the same.. Win ACC.. who cares..
lets get out and compete with the big boys. Will we win the conference every year of course not.. Will we ever? Of course.. it might be a time of adjustment, o well. I would rather see that and get better and know for a fact when we win our conference we are good enough to play with anyone and not get 70 hung on us.
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110%er [7650]
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Re: Walt says Clemson is in a good position because we can win
May 17, 2012, 9:05 AM
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He is somewhat right..
the acc is the path of least resistance, but its his initial premise that wrong.
He keeps saying "if the goal is to get there, then the ACC is the place to be"
Thats not the goal. I know he says and may be right, that winning a national title should be an after thought for Clemson. However, I want us to strive to be the very absolute best we can be.
we need 2 things to happen imo if we want to ever win a 4 team playoff..
1. increased yearly competition to make our demand for excellence and increased efforts in recruiting better. Sometimes Dabo can offer some scrubs. I think he thinks he has scholies to waste or that he is that good of a coach that he can "coach em up" Can't do that outside of this conference.
2. revenue$$$$$$money which is linked to one.
Look at the greatest programs on a yearly basis and I guarantee you will see a common denominator for most of them... money!
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