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Replies: 31
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CU Medallion [67919]
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OK on the Tiger Masters thread below
Apr 14, 2013, 7:36 PM
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the rules committee had almost an hour to review the drop and advise him of the penalty that night. That group is made up of rules people from all the tours playing at augusta and not a bunch of club members drinking in the clubhouse. and the drop matter should have been reported by a rules guy walking with the group (but augusta unlike other majors doesn't do that).
the whole matter should have been taken care of before he left the course. then the wrong card and penalty matter wouldnt have happened
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Starter [379]
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doesn't matter Jack's record is safe
Apr 14, 2013, 8:20 PM
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he will never get back to where he was
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Virtuoso [610]
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He's the best now and the best ever!! Even Jack agrees!***
Apr 14, 2013, 8:43 PM
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Jack is very gracious ...
Apr 14, 2013, 8:48 PM
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... but, the "best" in professional golf is the one who wins the most majors. Not who shoulda, coulda, woulda won the most majors.
Tiger Woods may very well be the most gifted golfer ever, but until he breaks the record for victories in the majors, Jack is the best.
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CU Medallion [67919]
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Re: Jack is very gracious ...
Apr 14, 2013, 8:53 PM
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I had a pro once tell me Jack gets to count his US Amatuers. For some reason most other people never get that added to their total by media types. This person had won an amateur but was no where close to the record.. I jusat thought it was interesting how those get added for Jack then and Tiger now. Watch when they talk about some other major winners total. Amateurs wont come up
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Virtuoso [610]
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If you count those for Tiger he is tied with Jack or at
Apr 14, 2013, 9:02 PM
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at least closer.
Johnny Miller said Jack created the idea that majors are much bigger than other events. Miller agrees they are bigger, but disagrees they are the end all be all like Jack.
Andy North only won 3 tournaments as a pro. Two of them were majors. He won the US Open twice. There are guys with quite a few wins, but no majors that are way better than North, but North gets this image. Johnny Miller is right, the majors are over hyped.
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110%er [5915]
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Re: If you count those for Tiger he is tied with Jack or at
Apr 14, 2013, 9:10 PM
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Jack has 18 pro majors and 2 US Amateurs
Tiger has 14 pro majors and 3 US Amateurs.
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Virtuoso [610]
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And two US Junior titles and 6 World Junior titles***
Apr 14, 2013, 9:13 PM
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110%er [5915]
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Re: And two US Junior titles and 6 World Junior titles***
Apr 14, 2013, 9:17 PM
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Are those majors?
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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No .. they're not.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:44 PM
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And the only reason there is any emphasis put on US Amateur titles is because without them, the venerated Bobby Jones' legacy would be pretty underwhelming.
There are 4 majors ... Johnny Miller couldn't win very many of them ... therefore he likes to downplay their importance. He's wrong. Majors are what identify the all-time greats. Johnny would like us to believe that Dean Martin Desert Opens where he shot 30 under were important. They weren't.
Tiger and Jack are both all-time greats, but Jack is just greater, and Johnny Miller isn't even in the conversation.
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110%er [5436]
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Re: No .. they're not.
Apr 15, 2013, 9:54 AM
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Bobby Jones is maybe the best ever
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110%er [5915]
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The pro was WRONG.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:08 PM
[ in reply to Re: Jack is very gracious ... ] |
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Jack has 18 professional majors.
Tiger has 14 professional majors.
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Rookie [13]
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Re: The pro was WRONG.
Apr 15, 2013, 12:00 AM
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Jack never played a full schedule. He only played 12-14 tournaments a year. Sam Snead won more total tournaments.
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Orange Blooded [3257]
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Only one that counts amateurs was Bobby Jones & he was an
Apr 14, 2013, 9:30 PM
[ in reply to Re: Jack is very gracious ... ] |
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AMATEUR!.......Jack has 18 pro majors and Tiger has 14 pro majors.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Wrong. Plenty of other players and experts agree Tiger is
Apr 14, 2013, 8:57 PM
[ in reply to Jack is very gracious ... ] |
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the best and Johnny Miller is on record saying that until Jack there was not as much emphasis on the majors. Jack created that myth. Tiger will end up with far and away the most wins. And he doesn't play but about 16 times a year and only plays the toughest tournaments with the hardest fields. His wins total is not padded with wins at The Hartford Open or The John Deere Classic.
Tiger, with far more competition, has more wins than Jack in about half as many tournaments played. Tiger would probably already have 18 majors had it not been for his injuries then messy divorce.
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Asst Coach [702]
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Have to disagree about Tiger facing better competition..
Apr 14, 2013, 9:00 PM
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Night be more better players today,but Jack had to play against 8-10 of the most consistant best players in history.
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Virtuoso [610]
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That's because when Jack played there were only a handful
Apr 14, 2013, 9:08 PM
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of guys with that kind of talent. Only a fool would think with the money in the game today and it's popularity world wide that there isn't far far more competition.
When Jack played there were almost ZERO international players and very few people played golf. It was a rich mans game until the late 70s or 80s. Golf has exploded since then. There are now pro tours all over the world.
You are going to say even though there are hundreds of pros on tour now, versus dozens back then, that Jack had tougher competition? That's nuts!! Defies logic.
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Asst Coach [702]
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I said 8-10 consistant best golfers..prolly more than we
Apr 14, 2013, 9:20 PM
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have in todays game.
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Asst Coach [702]
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All-TigerNet [11934]
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Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda ...meaningless historically.
Apr 14, 2013, 9:37 PM
[ in reply to Wrong. Plenty of other players and experts agree Tiger is ] |
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Jack created no myth whatsoever ... winning majors in pro golf is like world series rings in pro baseball and super bowl rings in football ... winning the little ones throughout your career is important, but inconsequential if not punctuated by also winning big ones. That's the true measure of a pro golfer.
What Johnny Miller says notwithstanding, Tiger is the most gifted player ever, but he's squandered his gift and it has cost him his perhaps rightful place in golf history. If he doesn't break Jack's records, he will go down as a great golfer who was an also-ran.
Johnny Miller downplays majors because he couldn't win very many of them himself.
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110%er [5436]
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CU Medallion [67919]
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Re: doesn't matter Jack's record is safe
Apr 14, 2013, 8:44 PM
[ in reply to doesn't matter Jack's record is safe ] |
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you never know but today would certainly tend to support that. once the rain started no one mad a lot of putts. they all had speed control issues
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Virtuoso [610]
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Jack didn't have the pressure of breaking a record, no media
Apr 14, 2013, 8:51 PM
[ in reply to doesn't matter Jack's record is safe ] |
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pressure, nor the competition Tiger faces. Tiger has far greater competition than Jack did. Tiger has won more tourneys than Jack despite Jack playing nearly twice as many and the well respected Johny Miller thinks that is the mark of true greatness. There are too many other factors, and luck, in golf to think Jack is better simply cause he won a few more majors.
FYI Tiger is on pace with Jack and better at his age than Jack was at 38. Jack had 14 major wins at 38.
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110%er [5915]
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So Byron Nelson had the greatest golfing year?
Apr 14, 2013, 9:24 PM
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He won 11 tournaments in a row and 18 of 35 in one year?
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110%er [8095]
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You may have missed the point...
Apr 14, 2013, 8:25 PM
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There are photos surfacing that show the drop was legal --- dropped in almost the exact same location as original location. What screwed Tiger was Tiger's interview where he says he dropped it two yards back --- showing intent to cheat. Tiger screwed himself.
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CU Medallion [67919]
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Re: You may have missed the point...
Apr 14, 2013, 8:41 PM
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I saw those photos from in front of him but there is no refence point. you cant tell where he is except in the ones from tv taken behind. they show him dropping behind the first divot.
rules people blew it while he was at the course. and the whole call in to question rules thing should never be considered . golf is stupid to allow viewers to have input
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Virtuoso [610]
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Wrong. In many cases you can back up to drop and in the
Apr 14, 2013, 8:47 PM
[ in reply to You may have missed the point... ] |
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heat of the moment after hitting a perfect shot and losing two strokes Tiger made a mistake. It was wrong, but not intentional. Tiger did not intentionally break the rules. He was Po'd and not thinking clearly. No one in his group, nor their rules official thought he did anything wrong, nor did they after reviewing the video.
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MVP [509]
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What I keep thinking about is
Apr 14, 2013, 8:57 PM
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Tiger hit a perfect shot with as much skill as possible and ends up with a four stroke penalty, a bogie instead of a birdie plus the 2 stroke penalty. That's golf, but I can't think of anything that could happen in any other sport that would be so penalizing for such perfect execution.
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Virtuoso [610]
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Exactly. It's crazy.***
Apr 14, 2013, 9:10 PM
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110%er [5436]
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Re: Exactly. It's crazy.***
Apr 15, 2013, 10:04 AM
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It's not crazy!!!!!! Tiger admitted trying to get the advantage. He knew that was not right so he is lucky they didn't DQ him
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Legend [19352]
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Re: OK on the Tiger Masters thread below
Apr 14, 2013, 9:28 PM
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wow this Edisto guy is about as ignorant about Golf as anyone I have seen in a long time. Congrats.
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All-TigerNet [10469]
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Re: OK on the Tiger Masters thread below
Apr 15, 2013, 9:09 AM
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A few thoughts:
The committee is composed of three individual, two of whom are ANGC members, gutless Fred Ridley, another ANGC member who supposedly has USGA rules experience and Mark Russell, a former PGA rules official. I strongly suspect the vote was 2-1, since no honorable person with knowledge of the rules could possibly view that footage and not conclude that there was a serious potential problem with the drop. I believe Russell is a person of integiry, and I believe he advocated to do the right thing.
Rule 33-7 was not enacted to cover a situation such as the drop in question. It was enacted to cover situations such as a player inadvertantly moving a loose impediment in a hazard where the player was unaware that a violation had occurred and the only way the infraction could be detected was the use of slow motion HDTV. That is why the rule is commonly called the HDTV rule. The use of the rule by the committee in this situation was a second incidence of cowardice on their part.
Bobby Jones would have been shamed by the actions of the AGNC committee.
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