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CU Guru [1357]
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All-In [40952]
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uh, that should be 6000 years
Mar 7, 2013, 7:28 PM
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not sure when the dinosaurs lived but it was sometime less than 6000 years ago
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CU Guru [1357]
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New theory. Read it and see what you think.***
Mar 7, 2013, 8:03 PM
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Legend [16748]
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Re: uh, that should be 6000 years
Mar 7, 2013, 8:30 PM
[ in reply to uh, that should be 6000 years ] |
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I think you are missing a few zeros. They died about 60 million years ago.
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Oculus Spirit [94213]
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Well chit.
Mar 7, 2013, 8:36 PM
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He is attempting to humiliate those who believe God created man about 6K years ago.
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Orange Blooded [4712]
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Heisman Winner [111956]
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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^^doesn't really want an answer^^***
Mar 8, 2013, 9:40 AM
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110%er [5156]
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Like there's a good one.****
Mar 8, 2013, 9:41 AM
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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I believe so. Dinosaurs came from eggs, right?
Mar 8, 2013, 9:44 AM
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Largest one being about the size of a basketball, right? You want animals to repopulate the earth, do you take old dinos that are enormous or young once that have more time to mate.
Also, according to the bible the volume of the ark is roughly the volume of 522 rail cars. Seems pretty easy to me.
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110%er [5156]
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...can't tell if serious. Meter broken.****
Mar 8, 2013, 9:45 AM
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110%er [5156]
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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Jesus was.***
Mar 8, 2013, 9:44 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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When did they stop believing the world was flat?
Mar 8, 2013, 9:48 AM
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Or that everything revolved around Earth?
I consider myself a Christian; however, the more knowledgeable and logical I become, the more I can see that religion is simply the explanation for what we can't explain in science yet.
Although, this theory was pretty cool, whoever posted that pointless map thing earlier this week had it, never seen it before:
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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Tmail***
Mar 8, 2013, 9:49 AM
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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Rock Defender [54]
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Can God create old things?
Mar 8, 2013, 9:52 AM
[ in reply to When did they stop believing the world was flat? ] |
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How long does it take to make good wine? A few years at best?
Jesus' first recorded miracle was to create the "best" wine for a marriage reception.
Time is man's creation. Not God's.
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110%er [5156]
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I'm not following.
Mar 8, 2013, 9:53 AM
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Are you saying God created the world/universe with the APPEARANCE of age?
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Rock Defender [54]
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Why not? Do you question an artisan's brushstrokes
Mar 8, 2013, 9:58 AM
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or the work of a craftsman to make it his own? That which makes it his, unique creation?
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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The artisan isn't using paint that's older than the
Mar 8, 2013, 10:01 AM
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existence of matter...
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Rock Defender [54]
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Well, when the artisan isn't bound by space or time
Mar 8, 2013, 10:10 AM
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and creates whatever, whenever he wants.
If you're looking to prove something with natural, intellectual thought...the Bible is not the place.
6 day creation, barren 100 year olds having kids, little boys slaying giants (bears, lions, philistines), superhuman strength humans knocking down buildings with their bare hands, entire city walls falling to the ground instantly, seas parting...
water turning into wine, healing people of incurable diseases, raising a dead man to life again, uneducated country folk speaking in other people's language and local dialects, feeding 5000 people with a kid's lunch...
Not to mention all of the improbable, unfit drunks, perverts, adulterers, liars, persecutors, traitors, and people who flat out deny knowing Jesus.
Yeah the whole thing is hard to believe.
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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Which is why I don't believe a single bit of Genesis in
Mar 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
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a literal form.
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110%er [5156]
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Riiiight. Right.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:03 AM
[ in reply to Why not? Do you question an artisan's brushstrokes ] |
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So God pretty much lied to the human race, then.
"Wanna see something REALLY funny? I'm going to create the universe with the appearance of age, even though it's brand-spanking new. That oughta f*ck with em.
But wait, I'm not done-- if they use the intellect and powers of observation that I gave them, to determine that the universe is billions of years old, they'll be in defiance of me!"
I'm sorry man. I respect you as a poster, and I honestly typically respect your posts, but when evangelical Christians start to delve into these kinds of topics, such as age of the earth, human origins, and the Flood myth, it really really strains credulity.
At some point you have to decide if you're going to be rational, or pre-rational.
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All-In [34823]
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Science has tried mightily over the years to ascertain the
Mar 8, 2013, 10:08 AM
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age of really old things, like the Earth. Thermodynamic calculations were applied, masses were calculated, and the best they could do was a ridiculous range that changed every few years.
Who strains credulity? The older I get, the less I believe in absolutes from science or religion. Our understanding is only as good as our understanding, which has been found wanting many times in human history.
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110%er [5156]
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The ranges aren't as ridiculous as you might think.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:13 AM
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But no one purports that science IS truth-- only that it's our best way to arrive at it.
Even so, your post is nothing more than a rhetorical Hail Mary.
"Science doesn't really know everything. See? It's a wash. Some believe in science, others believe in God. Neither knows it all."
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All-In [34823]
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See Clone's response below. No point in trying to restate
Mar 8, 2013, 10:22 AM
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what he said so well.
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Legend [17753]
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All-In [34823]
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Not really, but it might seem that way.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:55 AM
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I am reminded of the early physicists' reaction to quantum theory, and how disturbing it was for them to understand that it meant that at its core, it meant that there could be no finite snapshot of reality.
In the same way, many Christians (and of course, many millions of Islamic adherents) are perfectly willing to assume the fist of God in carrying out their beliefs. Once their faith has been challenged, and they are shaken, their moment of truth in understanding what they had always accepted as God's Will determines the strength of their Faith.
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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I've never understood the flood myth either. The amount of
Mar 8, 2013, 10:15 AM
[ in reply to Riiiight. Right. ] |
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water required to submerge Everest (after all, there is ocean stone on the peak of Everest and their excuse for it is it was once submerged in the flood) doesn't exist on this plant.
I once even took the calculations for it and figured out how much water it really would've been and it is impossible. That, and for 5.5 miles of rain to occur in 40 days is 263" of rain to occur per hour. That would sink any boat.
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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Wasn't just rain***
Mar 8, 2013, 10:16 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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...then what was it?***
Mar 8, 2013, 10:17 AM
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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Says fountains of the deep and windows of heaven
Mar 8, 2013, 10:20 AM
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Subterranean water and rain
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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Did the water go back to those subterranean pools?
Mar 8, 2013, 10:22 AM
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How have we not discovered these subterranean pools? The water aquifers and water tables still aren't enough water to raise the ocean levels above Everest.
And how did the water rise up from the subterranean pools? How is there no record of this monumental phenomenon?
If you use the excuse that it was divinely powered, why hasn't God done a divinely power of that magnitude since the advent of man's technology to document it?
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All-TigerNet [14283]
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Nother tmail
Mar 8, 2013, 10:25 AM
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Also, the record is the Bible, not sure I understand that question, maybe I'm reading it wrong.
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Rock Defender [54]
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If you respect me, then why talk like this to me?
Mar 8, 2013, 10:18 AM
[ in reply to Riiiight. Right. ] |
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Have I said anything through the course of my discussion that would be sarcastic or speaking down to anyone?
Then why would you do it to me, using sarcasm as a tool in this last post?
This is why discourse is strained. You can say you offer respect, but your responses give away your position. You don't want to exchange ideas. You don't want to see where another person comes from...you want to throw stones.
So, throw em. The same book that I'm an idiot and not rational for believing told me that I'd be mocked for believing it.
But cut the pretense about the faux respect and whatnot. Call me an imbecile and be on your way.
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All-In [34823]
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Point, and really well done.***
Mar 8, 2013, 10:24 AM
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110%er [5156]
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I would call you an idiot if I thought you were one.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:32 AM
[ in reply to If you respect me, then why talk like this to me? ] |
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I wasn't just giving lip service in my post, just like I wasn't when I said earlier in one of these threads when I said that many of the people posting in them are actually smart people.
The tragedy of your religion is that it takes someone who is obviously a deep thinker, and places a virtue on believing impossible things.
I'm sorry if that offends you, but it's the truth.
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All-In [34823]
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Proselytizing atheists are never persuasive.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:34 AM
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Only insulting and condescending.
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Legend [17753]
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Atheists feel the same way about proselytizing believers.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:40 AM
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The basic premise of either argument is 'what you believe is wrong and what I believe is right so change your mind to match mine'.
I'm not sure this argument can be made from either side in a way that is not received as insulting and condescending.
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All-In [34823]
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Yes it can, if you respect the other person.***
Mar 8, 2013, 10:44 AM
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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I think a major problem is YEC arguments is "because it
Mar 8, 2013, 10:44 AM
[ in reply to Atheists feel the same way about proselytizing believers. ] |
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says so in The Bible" where "atheists" are saying because thousands and thousands of scientists, engineers, and well educated people say so.
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Orange Blooded [4747]
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Re: I think a major problem is YEC arguments is "because it
Mar 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
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The difference is the atheists' position can be independently verified.
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Oculus Spirit [81994]
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There are parts of The Bible that can be independently
Mar 8, 2013, 10:50 AM
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verified; however, Genesis...not so much. In fact, most of Genesis can be independently proven incorrect, but that doesn't mean Christians shouldn't take the morals from the stories...which is the whole point of the book.
There are other accounts of Jesus from old accounts of actions, and that is one of the reasons I can still call myself a Christian and believe that Jesus is my Lord and Savior.
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110%er [5156]
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I'm not really trying to proselytize.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:41 AM
[ in reply to Proselytizing atheists are never persuasive. ] |
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I don't want Clone to give up his faith--
I want him to simply apply the same reasoning and logic to his faith that he applies to every other field of his life.
As I said in the thread in the PR board....
Faith can be wonderful, but there comes a point at which it does have real consequences if left unchecked.
I really do not mind people who believe Jesus is the savior of the world. I think it's rubbish, and I'd be lying if I said otherwise. But I see how that idea can make people better people. I can see how it can lead to forgiveness, humility, and gratitude, all of which the human race needs more of.
There is zero benefit to believing that Yahweh, war-god of the Canaanite pantheon, chose a 600 year old man to literally construct a massive boat, and literally herded thousands of animals into it, to survive a literal world-wide flood for which there is zero evidence.
That doesn't make you a better person.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Here's your folly.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:40 AM
[ in reply to I would call you an idiot if I thought you were one. ] |
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You are so bent on winning the argument, on bashing religion and evangelizing your point that you fail to connect with another person and empathize with their point of view. You don't have to suspend your beliefs to do that.
People throughout history have debated issues like this without sitting in judgement of each other, without casting aspersions.
You are not willing to cross the bridge to greater understanding of a point of view. That's the damnable shame.
I can sit and listen to any thought you have, and not think of you less of a person. It doesn't appear you can do the same for me. I am pitied by you. I am a sheep in your eyes. That is not a foundation for a reasonable exchange of ideas....nor of any kind of a relationship.
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Legend [17753]
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Clone, this part I think is completely incorrect
Mar 8, 2013, 10:44 AM
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> People throughout history have debated issues like
> this without sitting in judgement of each other,
> without casting aspersions.
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All-TigerNet [12066]
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So you are saying no one in the history of the human
Mar 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
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population has ever debated religion without judging the other side?
Clone didn't say all people did it, just that it had been done.
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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Yeah, see Chesterton vs Shaw for instance.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:50 AM
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Or today, Philip Johnson vs William Provine, all debated quite vigorously but respected one another and could go out and have a beer afterwards.
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Legend [17753]
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No, I'm not saying never possible or never has happened.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:59 AM
[ in reply to So you are saying no one in the history of the human ] |
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I read Clone's post to mean that religious differences have traditionally been peacefully and respectfully discussed and that's clearly not the case.
I'm saying that differences in religious beliefs are one of the main underlying causes for many of the wars and violence in human history.
You know, like:
-Killing Jesus
-The inquisition
-The holocaust
-The last 1000 years in the middle east
-Founding of the church of England
-Northern Ireland for much of the last century
So arguing about religion (and casting aspersion) is not a new phenomenon.
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110%er [5156]
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There is truth in what you say.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:46 AM
[ in reply to Here's your folly. ] |
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I just honestly can't wrap my head around how a college educated man can think certain things.
I'm not talking about believing in god. Trust me, I get the argument for god.
I don't know how a thinking person literally believes that Noah founds Zebras and dinosaurs and got them on the ark.
Or that god created stars with their light in transit, giving the appearance of an ancient universe.
I know that sounds very condescending, and my sincere apologies. It really is a fault of my own ignorance.
I don't understand smart people who seem to willingly accept silly notions out of a sense of obedience or loyalty or moral imperative.
I don't understand you.
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Rock Defender [54]
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That's fair.
Mar 8, 2013, 10:53 AM
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I can't tell you that it is easy to believe some of the things that are in the Bible. To my natural mind, it doesn't make sense. So there is common ground to be found.
I did not come to Christ by reading the Genesis account. I don't think anyone does. But once you come to Christ, you begin to look at the Word that he has given (the word that he himself used) and on the whole, begin to understand that the whole Bible points to Christ...and in context of historical times, reading it as if you were Moses' contemporary, it begins to come alive.
I'm sorry that organized religion has sat in judgement of you, that we as a christian culture have perverted scripture for our own gain. I nearly walked away from the faith for that reason myself.
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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There are very few of us who call ourselves 'Christians'
Mar 8, 2013, 11:01 AM
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who haven't struggled with things other Christians have done or said and none of us should be immune to criticism whether it's Billy Graham, The Bishop of Rome, or Joe Pewsitter.
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All-In [34823]
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If you're serious, the lessons from the Bible can make one
Mar 8, 2013, 11:06 AM
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quite ashamed of how far short we actually fall.
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Hall of Famer [23693]
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Most people in the Bible look exactly like us.
Mar 8, 2013, 11:08 AM
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Selfish, miserable, and petty.
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Rock Defender [54]
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I find myself often sitting in judgement of stupid mistakes
Mar 8, 2013, 11:12 AM
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that people make in the Bible. Thinking...geez how dumb could you be King David. Of all the women out there, could Bathsheba been that hot?
What's this? an LBOD?
Oh....wait..
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All-In [34823]
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And David is one of the good guys.***
Mar 8, 2013, 11:14 AM
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Orange Blooded [3148]
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Science is rassist
Mar 8, 2013, 7:51 AM
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what he's really saying is SC Obeds are basically cavemen...
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110%er [6272]
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honestly,
Mar 8, 2013, 9:45 AM
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(and i'm not picking on you.....)
WGAS?
they cant prove it. or disprove it.
probably a gross waste of taxpayer money.
my $0.02.
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Rock Defender [54]
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Is this guy related to Capt Crash?***
Mar 8, 2013, 10:18 AM
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50
