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All-In [26402]
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Thoughts On Mass Shootings and Calls For Stricter Gun Contr
Jul 21, 2012, 10:24 AM
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Every time we have a multiple mass shooting the gun control freaks come out of the woodwork and start screaming for more gun control laws. IMO, there will never be enough gun control laws for these people. The only thing that will satisfy their thirst for more government control over our lives is to ban all guns. They never stop to think that we already have plenty of laws on the books designed to prevent or punish those who murder. In today's culture,there will always be the nut that decides to commit mass murder and if not by using guns, then some other method.
Mass murder as we have witnessed in the past 20 years or so, such as Columbine, VTech., Az.,Pa.,and now Colorado, are a relatively new phenomenon brought about by a cultural change, not lax gun control laws. The shooters on average are young white males,above average in intelligence from middle class backgrounds. I won't attempt to ascribe any political ideology to them, because I don't think politics play any role in their demented thinking.
Access to guns of all types in America has in the past been much easier than it is today. There have always been guns in production that were capable of shooting lots of rounds (machine guns, rifles with large clips) and the only mass shootings taking place in the past were by criminals (mostly Mafia) against their competition. We did not see acts of mass random violence in the past as we see today. Why? Because of a cultural shift in our society that has glorified violence in a myriad of ways. Life itself has been cheapened. We are more tolerant of violence and in many instances defend it by making the violator the victim.
We don't need more gun laws to stop this insanity. We need a cultural shift in values. That means holding folks accountable for their actions on a daily basis. Something the left does not wish to do.
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Rock Defender [54]
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not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.***
Jul 21, 2012, 10:27 AM
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All-In [26402]
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Re: not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.***
Jul 21, 2012, 10:28 AM
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you forgot sarc. tag.lol
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Orange Blooded [2429]
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.***
Jul 21, 2012, 11:38 AM
[ in reply to not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.*** ] |
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ACCOUNTABLE?????? this has to be a joke.. some in USA think EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS someone else`s fault!we are the nation of the offended!!some people have no personable responsibility for any thing they do and think that "others" should provide for them everything they need or want!! they think our tax $$ should buy drugs, lottery tickets,alcohol, the list is endless!! while they do nothing but complain that the productive do little for them while they refuse to work!!!
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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Re: not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.***
Jul 21, 2012, 11:51 AM
[ in reply to not accountable? This is the era of personal responsibility.*** ] |
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this is a joke right???? some of the people in the USA think that everything is the fault of someone else.. they expect to get everything they want and it is all to come from tax $$ that someone else worked for and that they refuse to earn by working!!we are the nation of the offended
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110%er [9107]
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Serious question...how do we attain this cultural shift in
Jul 21, 2012, 10:32 AM
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values?
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All-In [26402]
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Re: I Think You Know The Answer
Jul 21, 2012, 10:38 AM
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Problem is, once the genie is out of the bottle...not likely to happen. History is replete with decaying societies who never made the change necessary to save themselves. IMO, that is where we are headed.
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110%er [9107]
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What are you talking about?
Jul 21, 2012, 10:40 AM
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I really don't know.
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All-In [26402]
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Re: What are you talking about?
Jul 21, 2012, 10:44 AM
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Google "Decaying Values In American Society" for starters. I think you are being coy.
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110%er [9107]
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All-In [26402]
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Re: This is the most frustrating conversation on here I've
Jul 21, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Read any one that suits you. There are hundreds to choose from. Many Books have been written on the subject. Buy one or go to the library and check one out. Show some initiative and educate yourself on the subject if you are truly interested. I think most folks of average intelligence who pay attention to current events and past history know what one is talking about when the term "decaying values in America" is used. If you are unaware of the subject, then it's not my job to educate. I have pointed you in one direction. My job here is finished.
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110%er [9107]
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Good grief dude.
Jul 21, 2012, 11:01 AM
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I ask an honest question and you assume the worst. Grow up.
If you don't like discussing your posts and answering questions about them, then why post to begin with?
BTW - I read the first two links (in an attempt to honestly do what you asked) and I agree with a lot in the second one, but the first one is looney tunes.
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All-In [26402]
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Re:I answered Your question
Jul 21, 2012, 11:14 AM
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http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12495619
I pointed out that we are a decaying society. I used the genie in the bottle analogy to show that I don't think we are going to reverse the decay in our cultural values. I stated that history is replete with societies that never reversed the decay and thus eventually collapsed. It may not have been the answer you wanted, but it is the answer I gave.
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110%er [9107]
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No you didn't.
Jul 21, 2012, 11:37 AM
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http://www.tigernet.com/forums/message.jspa?messageID=12495613
You said we needed a cultural shift and I asked how to do it.
Then you proceeded, for some unknown reason, to presume that I was being "coy" or somehow dishonest. You never answered how to attain this cultural shift (which you pointed out was needed - and I have to assume think is possible based on your post), which was the question I asked. I'm still not sure why you didn't answer the question nor why you became so defensive when asked to answer it.
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Know-it-all [2692]
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It's like he's trying to avoid saying something like, "By
Jul 21, 2012, 12:33 PM
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culling this generation, of course!"
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All-In [26402]
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Re: It's like he's trying to avoid saying something like, "By
Jul 21, 2012, 12:52 PM
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What an assinine nutty comment.
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Know-it-all [2692]
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It was an asinine nutty joke ;-P***
Jul 21, 2012, 1:04 PM
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Know-it-all [2692]
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But, seriously, it couldn't hurt anything, right?
Jul 21, 2012, 1:05 PM
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I mean, Justin Beiber, amirite?
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Legend [18334]
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Geesh just say it
Jul 21, 2012, 4:01 PM
[ in reply to Re:I answered Your question ] |
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Giving the nigra the right to vote and welfare
and benefits has created a dependent race.
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All-In [26402]
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Re: Geesh just say it
Jul 21, 2012, 4:18 PM
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Was that response directed to me? If so, why?
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Oculus Spirit [83197]
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Liberals will cause our society to collapse. Sounds like
Jul 21, 2012, 12:21 PM
[ in reply to What are you talking about? ] |
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Liberals screaming about global warming from the other fringe.
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110%er [6726]
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Orange Blooded [4102]
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All-In [26402]
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Re: Are We..... "Rome"? (4th century AD)***
Jul 21, 2012, 11:16 AM
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Some Historians think so, and I tend to agree. There are many parallels.
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Orange Blooded [4098]
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MVP [512]
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Re: Serious question...how do we attain this cultural shift in
Jul 21, 2012, 11:46 AM
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So the solution to stopping middle class white 20 somethings from shooting places is to #### over the poors
got it
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110%er [9107]
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I'd be OK with some of that.
Jul 21, 2012, 11:48 AM
[ in reply to Re: Serious question...how do we attain this cultural shift in ] |
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Particularly the drug testing and unemployment benefits.
I think welfare should be cut way back and folks receiving it should be drug tested. I do think it serves a purpose in limited cases.
I think medicaid serves a purpose, but the qualifications and what it pays for should be modified/restricted.
At least you answered the question.
If you got more, I'll take it.
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110%er [9107]
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Although I will say I'm not sure how much impact it would
Jul 21, 2012, 11:52 AM
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have on young, middle class, white males like those mentioned in the original post.
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CU Medallion [55908]
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Orange Blooded [4102]
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Don't want to sound like a liberal but....
Jul 21, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Its "society's fault, man"...... Being an old(er) guy now I see our society idolize violence, "shooter" video games are junk and the kids play 'em 24/7 ... sit on their butts and do nothing but.... guns have been around for hundreds of years ... its seems like the last few decades that the level of violence has increased, a correlation in the change in our society values? Back in the day, as they would say, use of an automatic (or semi) weapon was used by the military and organized crime. Guns are not the problem, its our culture.
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All-In [26402]
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Re: Don't want to sound like a liberal but....
Jul 21, 2012, 12:29 PM
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One writer believes that all cultures eventually decline. He writes:
"Decline comes inevitably to all civilizations. With the exception of hunter-gatherer societies that have not been interfered with by more complex ones (and there are no pristine hunter-gatherers left anymore, I fear), the pattern of birth, maturity, and decay would seem to be inescapable. Est ubi gloria nunc Babyloniae? Where is the glory of Babylonia now? Or that of ancient Egypt, China, India, Greece, Rome? Gone, all gone—that is the historical record. Why, then, should America escape this fate? If decay is built into the civilizational process itself, then talk of healing might be a bit out of place. Indeed, from an analytical standpoint, the problem is not that states collapse—for that is the rule—but that some manage to last as long as they do."
It's a scholarly except from his book as reviewd in the NYTimes.
If all cultures decline, which history supports, then reversing the trend, as I pointed out in the genie analogy, is probably not possible. At least history supports that conclusion. The writer thinks that all cultures go through peaks and valleys, but eventually the decline is inevitable. I think America is in decline, however, who knows how long it will take for us to reach total decay? What exactly will we go through on the way down?
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/b/berman-culture.html
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Know-it-all [2692]
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I love America as much as the next guy, but being a realist
Jul 21, 2012, 12:37 PM
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I figured we'd contract eventually. I don't think that is likely to be as traumatic and tragic as many expect. Indeed, the 'Fall of Rome' wasn't so horrible in the end.
I don't wish that it would happen, but I'm not sure if it is an emergency either. We're Americans. Country or no, for the most part we value good things and it is the people that make their country, whatever shape that takes.
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CU Medallion [60249]
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Too many lazy, entitled folks
Jul 21, 2012, 1:49 PM
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content with sucking whatever they can dry, and not caring one bit about actually contributing to society. And a bunch of people out there striving to enable their pitiful lifestyles. It's nearing 50% of the population these days. It's not sustainable.
Can you imagine this percentage of people with this mindset 200 years ago, or even 100?
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Know-it-all [2692]
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Self-reliance, sadly, is an easier lesson to learn in lean
Jul 21, 2012, 2:39 PM
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times. Perhaps part of the human condition is not valuing prosperity when one is born to it.
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Orange Blooded [4102]
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Today, rate of change is accelerated...
Jul 21, 2012, 2:11 PM
[ in reply to Re: Don't want to sound like a liberal but.... ] |
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With modern communications, transportation, etc what might have taken years to happen in "the days of yore" can now happen overnight. For example, the Soviet Union collapsed seemingly "overnight".... will the same happen to us? Gosh, I hope not.
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Legend [15863]
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violent movies - violent computer games - violence
Jul 21, 2012, 1:45 PM
[ in reply to Don't want to sound like a liberal but.... ] |
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everywhere
THERE has been a STRING of STABBINGS lately in LA - dude leaves a note on the Victim SERIAL ####### STABBINGS
NO NEWS about that
just guns
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Legend [18026]
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110%er [9107]
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Teen pregnancy rates are down too:
Jul 21, 2012, 3:09 PM
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http://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/
Not related to murder, but interesting.
There is absolutely no other time in history I'd rather be alive than now.
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Legend [18026]
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Me either. Those that have such negative views
Jul 21, 2012, 3:15 PM
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of our country, culture, or society really need to realize how great of a time they are living in. Once the economy recovers fully, I expect an even better time than now. (War or terrorist attack could change this though)
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MVP [512]
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Legend [18026]
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loons on both sides come out after a mass shooting.
Jul 21, 2012, 2:47 PM
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You can set your watch by it. The lefties want tighter gun control and think that would stop these shootings. The right-wing thinks it's a cultural shift (read: liberals) that have corrupted the country and is destroying it. Violent crime is at it's lowest in 40 years, so clearly whatever we are doing culturally may be working? Who knows.
The point is, the loons on both sides always politicize a tragedy and what they want is ALWAYS the same.
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All-In [26402]
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Re: Maybe More Folks Carring Concealed Weapons Is Reason
Jul 21, 2012, 3:19 PM
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crime is down?
Gun-control advocates are noticeably silent when crime rates decline. Their multimillion-dollar lobbying efforts are designed to manufacture mass anxiety that every gun owner is a potential killer. The statistics show otherwise.
Last week, the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) announced that violent crime decreased 4 percent in 2011. The number of murders, rapes, robberies and aggravated assaults all went down, continuing a pattern.
“This is not a one-year anomaly, but a steady decline in the FBI’s violent-crime rates,” said Andrew Arulanandam, spokesman for the National Rifle Association. “It would be disingenuous for anyone to not credit increased self-defense laws to account for this decline.”
Mr. Arulanandam pointed out that only a handful of states had concealed-carry programs 25 years ago, when the violent-crime rate peaked. Today, 41 states either allow carrying without a permit or have “shall issue” laws that make it easy for just about any noncriminal to get a permit. Illinois and Washington, D.C., are the only places that refuse to recognize the right to bear arms. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence did not respond to requests for comment.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/18/gun-ownership-up-crime-down/
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Legend [18026]
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I don't think it's just one factor.
Jul 21, 2012, 3:29 PM
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But I do see it as a sign that our culture or society isn't crumbling.
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CU Medallion [68196]
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tighter security implemented in places to stop copy cats
Jul 21, 2012, 3:20 PM
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as heinous as this is how effed up to do you have to be when seeing this to think- yeah I'd like to try that too. yeah I know there are some. just shows what an unbelievably sick world it is. I pray Colorado has capital punishment. This joker deserves it
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Legend [18026]
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I posted a video the other day that talked about copycats...
Jul 21, 2012, 3:34 PM
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it was a british show talking about media coverage and how they treat the tragedy like entertainment. They had an American psychologist on at the end that said when you cover the story 24/7, keep repeating the number of dead, and obsessing over the killer it almost always leads to copy cat killings. He said the best way to handle these events is to keep the story local and to make it boring.
It goes to what I and many others say that once the "News" started to be profitable (tv) then it was the end of objective and useful news. You see this with the partisan crap on Fox News and MSNBC to get ratings. They aren't so much interested in the truth, but a certain viewpoint. Even non political stories they will try to make political or make sensationalistic for ratings. Such is the case with mass shootings.
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