|
Replies: 55
| visibility 2
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Don't know anything about Chris Broussard
Apr 29, 2013, 4:18 PM
|
|
But, at least in this clip, he is right on the money. He said what the Bible says, and did it with confidence, sincerity, and maturity. I applaud him, and hope he's ready to get hammered for it. Who will get trashed more over the next 24 hours? Jason Collins or Chris Broussard? In today's society, an athlete being gay is much, much more socially acceptable than the Bible.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/04/29/1937181/espn-broussard-jason-collins/
|
|
|
|
 |
Oculus Spirit [79067]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 26453
Joined: 12/6/98
|
Jason Collins should be sent
Apr 29, 2013, 4:27 PM
|
|
to a gay conversion camp.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
The NBA is full of sinners...
Apr 29, 2013, 4:28 PM
|
|
Why call out the queer? How many are calling themselves Christians and not acting like it? If one's using the Bible as a guide, are there any Christians?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Probably because he was specifically asked about it.
Apr 29, 2013, 4:30 PM
|
|
The question was "In the article Collins says he is a Christian. What do you think about that?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
Then why ask the question, or answer it?
Apr 29, 2013, 4:34 PM
|
|
Seems like a rather dumb conversation to even have, but it's good for controversy and ratings.
This is why I don't watch TV "News", it makes everyone dumber.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [45047]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 38460
Joined: 8/26/03
|
I don't watch the news for that very reason!
Apr 29, 2013, 4:37 PM
|
|
I am dumb enough as it is, I don't need to become a puddle of goo!
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Don't know ESPN's purpose for asking.
Apr 29, 2013, 4:43 PM
[ in reply to Then why ask the question, or answer it? ] |
|
If I were asked, I would like to think I would answer truthfully, as Broussard did.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
ESPN's purpose in asking is because they knew what the
Apr 29, 2013, 4:46 PM
|
|
response would be. What bother's me is one person claiming that another's claim to be a Christian is incorrect, not that he's personally against homosexuality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29058]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36116
Joined: 8/28/00
|
He outlines why
Apr 29, 2013, 4:50 PM
|
|
Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with him, but I also don't think he's in the wrong for stating his theological opinion/conviction.
But to be clear in my opinion a sports broadcast is not the time and place for the question nor the answer.
It is a valid discussion as to the effect on locker room morale, team unity, etc... but why are we discussing his Faith on TV as if it needs to be decided in that venue?
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
I do believe OTL is an unusual venue for such a conversation
Apr 29, 2013, 4:52 PM
|
|
Don't think it's a bad thing, but it does seem unusual.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [38514]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 47162
Joined: 10/28/02
|
I agree with you, just doesn't seem to be the place
Apr 29, 2013, 4:55 PM
[ in reply to He outlines why ] |
|
for that question. The question seems out of place and the person being asked is the wrong person to ask a question like that.
Is eating bacon unrepentant sin? Because I'd totally spend eternity in hell if that's where the bacon is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
what he said isn't "gay bashing"...
Apr 29, 2013, 4:41 PM
|
|
but I'm not entirely sure he's right about whether a person who comes out as "gay" is necessarily not a Christian. I think he's right so far as unrepentance goes, but he's wrong to assume that a person who describes themselves as "gay" is in any less a state of grace than anybody else.
That said, I think your larger point about subscribing to a Biblical ethics being less popular than being gay stands. It isn't really all that courageous to come out anymore. Then again, I wouldn't want people to think it was all that courageous to claim you were a Christian either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Claiming Christianity is not unpopular or controversial.
Apr 29, 2013, 4:45 PM
|
|
The Bible is unpopular and controversial, and increasingly so.
I agree...I wouldn't qualify anything he said as "gay bashing".
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29058]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36116
Joined: 8/28/00
|
I'd argue the morals and standards the bible sets forth
Apr 29, 2013, 4:47 PM
|
|
Have ALWAYS been unpopular and controversial. The focus just changes depending on which part of those standards we're discussing.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Agree, but I do think it's getting worse.
Apr 29, 2013, 4:47 PM
|
|
Which is not a surprise, because the Bible tells us it will get worse and worse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
that might be true...
Apr 29, 2013, 5:22 PM
|
|
but I don't think there's anything to be gained by taking on a bunker mentality and by complaining about people's treatment of Christianity.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Many of us are tired of people using some bronze age
Apr 30, 2013, 8:08 AM
[ in reply to Claiming Christianity is not unpopular or controversial. ] |
|
superstitions to predicate their own personal prejudices on others. The fact that more and more people in the world are seeing the pernicious nature of religious doctrine is disturbing to the true believers. The faithful cannot bear to see their delusions exposed as hollow myths that they are. Christians fear enlightenment the way vampires fear dawn.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ring of Honor [32958]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 53106
Joined: 3/5/02
|
I do not think Christians fear enlightenment. But so many
Apr 30, 2013, 8:20 AM
|
|
see the Bible as the unadulterated word of God.
Questioning one's own words and deeds through life is pretty traumatic for most people.
Questioning what has been handed down through the ages as the word of God?
You oughtta read up on this guy named Martin Luther. Change is a #####.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Realizing that the bible is not the true unadulterated
Apr 30, 2013, 8:29 AM
|
|
word of god is probably the greatest enlightenment today.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29058]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36116
Joined: 8/28/00
|
I agree on one key issue
Apr 29, 2013, 4:45 PM
[ in reply to what he said isn't "gay bashing"... ] |
|
It was NOT gay bashing or homophobic or anything of the sort.
It is a theological question. One which he answered with his opinion/conviction.
Now maybe from a purely PR standpoint he'd have been better deflecting the question, but that does not make his answer gay bashing at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
First Things has been doing a lot of work...
Apr 29, 2013, 4:54 PM
|
|
on the theological issue lately. There have been pieces over there on what it means to be a "gay Christian," or why it's impossible to identify as both gay and Christian, and other pieces that come down somewhere in between. Really a pretty interesting debate, and even more interesting because all of the debates have been pretty sensitive to Biblical injunctions against non- marital sex.
Here are the pieces I was talking about, if you're at all interested in the topic: http://www.firstthings.com/search.php?q=gay%2520and%2520christian
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11419]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14155
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Good thing that God has Broussard to interpret the
Apr 29, 2013, 4:52 PM
|
|
Bible for us. After all, a sportscaster is the logical choice for an authority on apologetics.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
He wasn't trying to tell anyone what to believe
Apr 29, 2013, 4:54 PM
|
|
Or convert anyone (not that that would necessarily be a bad thing to do, in the right venue). He simply stated what he believed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11419]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 14155
Joined: 9/2/03
|
Which is fine. ESPN put him on there to say something
Apr 29, 2013, 5:12 PM
|
|
controversial, they knew he would answer the question in a biblical context. He made it clear that, in his mind, if you're gay...you can't be a Christian.
I simply don't put any weight into religious conjecture coming from a person determined to exclude a segment of the population based on his personal interpretation of the text.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Here's more context around his comments.
Apr 29, 2013, 5:00 PM
|
|
"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is. [ESPN's] L.Z. [Granderson] knows that. He and I have played on basketball teams together for several years. We've gone out, had lunch together, we've had good conversations, good laughs together. He knows where I stand and I know where he stands. I don't criticize him, he doesn't criticize me, and call me a bigot, call me ignorant, call me intolerant.
"In talking to some people around the league, there's a lot Christians in the NBA and just because they disagree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant and things like that. That's what LZ was getting at. Just like I may tolerate someone whose lifestyle I disagree with, he can tolerate my beliefs. He disagrees with my beliefs and my lifestyle but true tolerance and acceptance is being able to handle that as mature adults and not criticize each other and call each other names. "
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
If coming up short to the ideals of Christianity makes
Apr 29, 2013, 5:05 PM
|
|
one not a Christian, are any of us?
Last time I checked, one can be a sinner and be a Christian at the same time?
I'm not arguing or vouching for Broussard's point, I'm just saying that I didn't know the two were completely and totally mutually exclusive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [28802]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 58393
Joined: 11/14/03
|
Re: If coming up short to the ideals of Christianity makes
Apr 29, 2013, 5:23 PM
|
|
He may be right if claiming "gay" to be your identity means you never repent of your behavior.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
There's a difference between sinning...
Apr 29, 2013, 6:21 PM
[ in reply to If coming up short to the ideals of Christianity makes ] |
|
And living a lifestyle of sin. If you are a Christian, when you sin, you will immediately know you did something wrong, because the indwelling Spirit will tell you. And you will want to get it right. A Christian cannot possibly live a life of continual sin, because the constraining Spirit will not allow it. That's what Broussard is referring to (key word "unrepentant").
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
For example, I do tell lies sometimes.
Apr 29, 2013, 6:35 PM
|
|
But if I got on TV and said I was a liar, and didn't see anything wrong with being a liar, you'd probably doubt that I'm a Christian. And that doubt would be thoroughly justified.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
We know gluttony is a sin.
Apr 30, 2013, 7:36 AM
|
|
Is over-eating the same thing as sinful gluttony, necessarily? I don't really think so. Certainly being fat is not the same as gluttony. I believe gluttony in the Bible has to do with letting something have control and dominance in your life. But I do think many Christians need to consider this.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
What's sad is that a good person who is hurting no one and
Apr 29, 2013, 5:32 PM
|
|
is a threat to hurt no one can be hurt by the way many people interpret The Bible.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29058]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36116
Joined: 8/28/00
|
To be fair
Apr 29, 2013, 5:53 PM
|
|
How is the good person who is hurting no one in fact hurt by someone else not thinking them to be a Christian.
I know for a fact there are many Christians (I grew up with a good many of them) who would claim my drinking to be a barrier to truly following Christ. It doesn't hurt me.
I don't agree with the interpretation that self identifying as a homosexual is a barrier to salvation, but I also don't think it's in any significant way hurting the person who feels himself to be both gay and a Christian.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Good people who are hurting no one are hurt by the
Apr 29, 2013, 7:12 PM
|
|
discrimination, abuse, and hate that is directed at them by people who justify that discrimination, abuse, and hate, in part, with the idea that homosexuality is a sin, and that it is wrong.
While I do not consider homosexuality a sin, as it hurts no one, drunkeness certainly has negative consequences. While it would certainly be wrong to hate or abuse people merely for drinking, people who drink don't face anywhere near the same kind of unwarranted hate and abuse that homosexuals do, so understandably, you, as a drinker, aren't hurt by it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [29058]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 36116
Joined: 8/28/00
|
I'm sorry, but saying something is a sin
Apr 29, 2013, 8:00 PM
|
|
Should not be considered hate speech.
Individuals have a right to draw their convictions. And saying something someone else does is wrong is not enough to merit the level of discrimination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
Don't be sorry - I agree 100%.
Apr 29, 2013, 8:31 PM
|
|
Many people will use their belief that something is a sin to justify discrimination, and many will (and do) use it as a basis for hate. For them it starts with the belief that homosexuality is a sin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
|
|
|
|
|
Connoisseur [391]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 127
Joined: 6/20/12
|
^^^^the problem with religion today
Apr 30, 2013, 4:02 PM
[ in reply to Good people who are hurting no one are hurt by the ] |
|
"I do not consider homosexuality a sin, as it hurts no one."
Not sure when God laid down the rule of thumb that the only sins were things that directly hurt others. Can ya quote me a scripture on that?
You and many others feel entitled and empowered to make their own rules to live by while still calling themselves Christians.
If you don't believe in the Bible's establishment of right and wrong, that's fine. But don't call yourself a Christian. But if you must, don't judge other Christians according to the morality you have made up for yourself because it "felt right."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Man, you really ARE a creed fan.***
Apr 30, 2013, 4:12 PM
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Connoisseur [391]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 127
Joined: 6/20/12
|
i'll take ya higher
Apr 30, 2013, 4:18 PM
|
|
but Creed sucks. Scott Stapp is a prick, regardless of your stance on ghey marriage we can all agree on that
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
I hope God wouldn't allow him to spend eternity in hell for
Apr 29, 2013, 7:27 PM
|
|
something he can't help and hurts no one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1669]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2314
Joined: 1/20/03
|
The Bible
Apr 29, 2013, 6:45 PM
[ in reply to What's sad is that a good person who is hurting no one and ] |
|
says that there is no one that is good. Romans 3:23 says we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. I have been sanctified by the blood of Jesus Christ. Apart from Him, there is no good in me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
No one is perfect, for sure, but I disagree that no one is
Apr 29, 2013, 7:30 PM
|
|
good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Guru [1669]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 2314
Joined: 1/20/03
|
Again
Apr 29, 2013, 7:44 PM
|
|
the Bible is clear on this issue, but if you or others don't believe in it, then I cannot convince you. Only God can make you understand. "The LORD looks down from heaven on the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, any who seek God. All have turned aside, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one."– Psalm 14:2-3
|
|
|
|
|
|
CU Medallion [59016]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 46604
Joined: 4/23/00
|
"Good" is a relative term, and certainly compared to the
Apr 29, 2013, 8:12 PM
|
|
perfection of God, no man is "good". We all are all sinners. That is what I take from this passage. However, I flat out reject the notion that many people don't truly seek God and try to do his will, have good hearts, have genuine love and concern for others and do a lot of good, and by that measure are "good" people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Associate AD [828]
TigerPulse: 95%
Posts: 883
Joined: 9/4/03
|
Strongly disagree
Apr 30, 2013, 2:11 AM
[ in reply to Again ] |
|
If it is so clear than why is it widely debated within Christendom?
I personally know off the top of my head at least 12 ordained ministers who believe that being gay in of itself is not a sin and support gay marriage. I also know another dozen who side on the other end of the spectrum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Oculus Spirit [83410]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 80262
Joined: 11/29/99
|
Uh, what if Collins has never acted out his desires?
Apr 29, 2013, 7:28 PM
|
|
That could certainly be the case, right?
Message was edited by: josephg®
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
you calling him a flop with the dewds?
Apr 30, 2013, 12:03 AM
|
|
I gotta think that an NBA star of either persuasion wouldn't have much trouble getting whatever action they were inclined to pursue.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-TigerNet [11021]
TigerPulse: 100%
Posts: 12359
Joined: 7/5/03
|
What ever happened to "Let he who is without sin..."
Apr 30, 2013, 7:43 AM
|
|
"...cast the first stone?"
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
Who's casting stones? Not Broussard, and by God's help
Apr 30, 2013, 7:49 AM
|
|
not me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
Re: Who's casting stones? Not Broussard, and by God's help
Apr 30, 2013, 7:51 AM
|
|
I cannot believe that people would actually TD the original post. Lungers/Tnetters make zero sense to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
The bible isn't the only word, just like
Apr 30, 2013, 8:15 AM
|
|
hetero isn't the only way to ##### apparently.
Citing his religious beliefs in response to dude coming out is insensitive.
Don't matter what you believe. He shoulda kept his mouth shut and he is not right on the money. The bible is a book chock full of stuff open for interpretation.
CB has a right to his opinion, but he's an arsehat and a #### for attention for his rant.
And no, ghey is more sensational than the bible in "today's society". I guarantee you that 8-9 players of every 12 man roster pray (bible believers) together multiple times per day. Prolly only 1 in 12 has TXTF stuff going on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
So you think when asked specifically about it...
Apr 30, 2013, 8:41 AM
|
|
Broussard should have said "I will not answer that question."?
Do you think people are supportive of homosexuality should do the same? Or is it only beliefs that you disagree with that you want silenced?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Rock Defender [54]
TigerPulse: 90%
Posts: 35
Joined: 11/30/98
|
I'm going out on a limb to say that you don't know what
Apr 30, 2013, 8:52 AM
|
|
my beliefs are. So we'll leave that part there.
My point is he could have taken the high road rather than being insensitive and injecting his own insensitive beliefs on his viewership.
And yes, if someone is a #### supporter I do not think it is their place to push that on their audience either.
Not via a forum like ESPN.
|
|
|
|
|
|
All-In [26968]
TigerPulse: 96%
Posts: 44823
Joined: 7/6/10
|
I don't claim to know. There are question marks at the end
Apr 30, 2013, 9:00 AM
|
|
of all those sentences. I was asking, and you answered, and I appreciate that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies: 55
| visibility 2
|
|
|
50
