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110%er [7221]
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Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 27, 2021, 10:34 PM
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With the portal and the NIL craze what of getting a formal education using your athletic ability to fund your college tuition?
I guess I am: Mr. Get Off My Lawn Guy! But, what happens when a "sponsor" drops your NIL? It's still possible I know to get your education and have a deal; but really? 100K to a kid who has never had money is a lot. "It's a lot to me too, just saying"!
The idea of choosing a school just because you want a degree from that school: is it off the books for the most talented players?
I figure the kids who aren't getting paid for their name, image and likeness still value the premise of getting an education. Especially knowing the stats about making the NFL. Of course, every kid thinks they are NFL material until they start competing at practice and get humbled. Or at least, that's how it use to work! A kid got humbled and either folded and gave up or on most cases, they stuck it out; got their education as a backup plan, and worked to become a better player capable of beating out the competition. Is this the NCAA equivalent to "every kid gets a trophy"? Because, now they won't know they have to get better - if they leave because they aren't starting. If they are a starter and leave for "promises made" will they know what following through is?
Putting on my: Tiger-damus hat: "I predict in a year or two the data will come out that the vast majority of players who entered the portal never completed their college degree"! And, the numbers will be staggering!
These kids need some old-school coaches who are honest with them; not leeches trying to use them in their corner! Every transfer isn't a bad thing - no doubt. Some are warranted and I get it. Things like for example; but not limited to: "you are a WR and your coach leaves and an option coach comes in"! Transfer son to a good school that has your major that also has a football team with a more pass-friendly offense! But, leaving because of NIL money and because of lack of playing time is setting these kids up to think that "walking away will solve everything and not following through is okay"!
Do they even care about the Education anymore?
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Orange Blooded [4286]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 27, 2021, 10:45 PM
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The above probably has more truth in it than any post here since 1995...
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All-American [591]
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They still get a $5000 stipend...
Dec 27, 2021, 11:09 PM
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Plus they're comped just about anything & everything, SOP for a power 5 town.
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All-TigerNet [10822]
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There will still be guys that want to get their education
Dec 27, 2021, 11:11 PM
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I think that depends on the kids’ parenting growing up
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110%er [7221]
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Re: There will still be guys that want to get their education
Dec 28, 2021, 11:54 AM
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I think that depends on the kids’ parenting growing up
I hope you are right!
If you look at the graduation rate for Clemson under Coach Swinney - the success is undeniable! And, Clemson is no easy degree waiting to happen!
In the world of "wanting your cake and eat it too; one would think a place like Clemson and a Coach like Dabo and staff would be at the top of the list"! Clearly, you can get NIL money(DJU) at CU. Its clear CU puts players in the NFL. It's clear Clemson is a prestigious university from which one would be proud to get a degree from! The graduation rate of the football players from CU plus the NFL potential if you work your butt off - should have recruits kicking and screaming trying to get in here.
One would also think Dabo's willingness to "play everybody" is a plus during this time!
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110%er [7221]
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Question?
Dec 28, 2021, 12:09 PM
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There are still only 85 scholarships allowed correct?
What I am having a hard time understanding is how people are saying "non-star yet critical players like OL; no name LG is getting NIL money"!
I thought(and this is where I need someone reading this that understands it better than me to explain) it was going to be: let's say Johnny "football" Manziel while at T A&M was allowed to do local car dealership ads - check! Or local restaurant advertisements - check! Maybe Devante Smith after winning the Heisman is allowed to say "i'm going to Disney world" and get paid - check!
Is it true some boosters/schools/organizations/etc. are figuring out how to get all the kids NIL money?
If so, if there are still only 85 scholarship opportunities, won't this thing in essence come down to roster management? The big schools will get the most desirable players - but even at Clemson we have seen some 5-stars come in and just never live up to the hype. I.E. - don't give them the trophy just yet. CU had a composite class of 17th in 2015 when we were an onsides kick away from possibly having the first of what would have been two NC.
It's still going to be doable for Clemson and any team who has "enough difference makers" combined with hard working role players!
What Dabo is selling is what you can get from the portal +. Call Clemson the "Plus Package school" because you can leave with more than just a few NIL bucks!
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Head Coach [790]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 11:58 AM
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You’re right. You are Mr “get off my lawn”
You’re assuming kids in the past wanted an education too! Remember stories of kids being illiterate and attending college in the 70s/80s?
Y’all have some serious rose coulored glasses on.
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Hall of Famer [23369]
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But he wasn't talking about those kids
Dec 28, 2021, 12:02 PM
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He was talking the ones that really did want an education while being a student-athlete and understood the value of a scholarship. There were lots of those too. And of course there were some that were just in college to play ball.
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All-In [44107]
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Lots of jibberish to unpack here.
Dec 28, 2021, 12:08 PM
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How many kids are actually getting $100k? VERY few.
Talented at football = don't care about education? Pretty big leap.
Everyone gets a trophy, and kids don't know if they have to get better? WUT?
Vast majority that transfer won't get degrees? What makes you think this? You DO know that MANY non-athletes transfer too right?
What kid...name just one....who is transferring because of a)lack of playing time, AND b) NIL money? Those 2 things don't seem to relate well.
Yes, definitely a boomer get-off-my-lawn post.
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Hall of Famer [23369]
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On the other hand, name a scholarship player
Dec 28, 2021, 12:31 PM
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that transferred for academic reasons. A 4 or 5 star player wanted an accounting degree from an SEC school instead of an ACC school? The NIL and the portal with the one time no wait transfer has made it more about the athletics than the academics. Sure, some of Hillrock's scenarios are a reach, but I think some of y'all are missing the point of the post.
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110%er [7221]
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Re: On the other hand, name a scholarship player
Dec 28, 2021, 12:49 PM
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BigAl31 - as you said, no doubt it's become more about athletics. A poster/person who tries to ask for data that isn't readily available i.m.o are playing a bit of cat and mouse because "unlike some NFL contracts that get blasted those numbers aren't available"! So, when asking for data, one is obviously going to come up empty.
I don't totally blame a kid for doing so if a coaching staff changes or if they have spent at least a few seasons at a school. To me it should be a two year minimum before you are allowed to transfer w/o penalty. And then, just once w/o penalty!
A school invest thousands of dollars into a player(training, scholarship, feeding and clothing, stipend $, etc). At least give an honest shot where your feet are planted!
My biggest thing is: "let's wait for the data"! I could be surprised and find out kids are just blissful and happier after transferring. But, I suspect as I said, there are going to be many more sad outcomes from this than there are happy ones! Don't forget; every year there are a new crop of H.S. players coming in who have all four years of eligibility left! Won't you hold up a spot for one of them by signing a transfer portal player?
There are still only so many spots you can have. What happens to those players(high school incoming players)?
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All-In [44107]
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Look, for the record I don't think tranfers are good for
Dec 28, 2021, 1:12 PM
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the kid, school, or sport more often than not. There are legitimate reasons for SOME transfers though, for sure.
Schollies are not guaranteed and until they are it's unreasonable to ask for the committment of a kid when the school isn't committed to them. We don't see this at CU but it happens elsewhere.
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All-In [44107]
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I mean, playing a year or two then transferring certainly
Dec 28, 2021, 1:10 PM
[ in reply to On the other hand, name a scholarship player ] |
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is unlikely to be motivated by academics.
Kids that have graduated and transfer to programs that offer post-grad opportunities not found where they got their undergrad degree does happen though. And I'd say that scenario is more common now than before with the extra year of covid eligibility.
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Hall of Famer [23369]
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So the grad transfers already have a degree
Dec 28, 2021, 1:22 PM
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They understood the assignment. And of course grad transfers haven't had to sit out a year since 2011. That transfer rule seemed to be more academically motivated than the current ones.
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110%er [7221]
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W/O Data - just another person w/an Opinion!
Dec 28, 2021, 2:55 PM
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I'm waiting for the data!
If what the SEC commissioner said is true; it will be a slam dunk as to what I said. At least in terms of having school paid for.
Unless you get it in writing kids! And, if you get it in writing, what of the fine print? Do you get a lawyer?
Just a sticky mess!
I think about kids who didn't blossom until their senior year of college when I see all these transfers. They aren't betting on themselves "where their feet are"! Just because the scenery changes does not mean it's going to get easier! As stated many times: "there are the 100% legit transfers"!
That's not what we are seeing now; not even close!
The Data will be interesting to see and dissect years from now! Long after people have forgotten some of these kids' names! This is what I am concerned about ironically(might not seem like it but it's about the player's long-term well-being). Let's see what the data suggest!!!!!
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Lots of jibberish to unpack here.
Dec 28, 2021, 12:31 PM
[ in reply to Lots of jibberish to unpack here. ] |
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How many kids are actually getting $100k? VERY few.
Talented at football = don't care about education? Pretty big leap.
Everyone gets a trophy, and kids don't know if they have to get better? WUT?
Vast majority that transfer won't get degrees? What makes you think this? You DO know that MANY non-athletes transfer too right?
What kid...name just one....who is transferring because of a)lack of playing time, AND b) NIL money? Those 2 things don't seem to relate well.
Yes, definitely a boomer get-off-my-lawn post.
I don't have the data of course to know how many kids are getting 100K or any other amount! Several examples however like Stingley at LSU and the 80K vehicle plus cash and the Texas OL - charitable fund where it's basically 50K each to talk about.
Where is your data on I never suggested because you care about football you don't care about education! Clemson has done a terrific job of graduating it's players! Kids who have thought about life after ball. I was asking the question and kind of leaving it open ended(re-read it please). I wasn't saying it's a sure thing they won't; but my gut feeling is they won't because school will suddenly not be funded.
They can certainly go back to school - but if no one picks them up - "it's going to be on their own dime" in other words! I am suggesting many will struggle with that aspect of it.
Many non-athletes do transfer - and they pay for it! You are missing the financial aspect of my post from a "free education" POV. Nobody is concerned you are right; "how you spend money you will have to pay back or if your lucky money you just have to pay out of pocket"! Stay on task - I am talking about giving up a 5 years of college at a prestigious university scholarship! One in which you will eat well(let's be honest the players eat well and are taken well care of in other areas too).
And lastly, you tell me a kid who didn't transfer for those reasons? I'll give you Demarcus Bowman and perhaps Frank Ladson who I think were just homesick!
I don't know with any degree of certainity so it wouldn't be right to say it here about others - but playing time most certainly came into play! Looking at the depth chart most certainly came into play. Go and look at interviews of kids who have transferred out and they often basically spell that out. They say, "they want more opportunity" instead of saying "playing time"! If you can't decipher that; I don't know what else to tell you.
NIL deals - how many NIL deals are public? Once they are I will get back to you. But, only a fool or a very naive person is sitting thinking all these kids suddenly need to go to schools who openly have NIL programs!
For the record; I am not against it! I think it needs some rules around it and some controls put in place: but it's good for a player not to be stuck! I use the GT situation and Paul Johnson. Your a WR and he takes over; you should be allowed to leave w/o penalty! It wasn't what you signed up for.
I get all that and NIL - hey if not a soul bought a #4 Jersey then a player comes and popularizes it on campus and around the country - they should at least be able to do public speaking for a profit or ads for a profit. The problems is; the entire team isn't making commercials or being a spokesperson! Just shuffling money to them so they are on your schools team instead of your rival is poor sportsmanship and isn't good for the kid in the long run!
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Orange Blooded [3168]
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I don't think the U and the Oklahoma's in the 80's were
Dec 28, 2021, 12:10 PM
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at school for the reading riting and rithmatic.
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Legend [16044]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 12:23 PM
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Great points made in your post. It unfortunate that many players are chasing the big time $$$$$ which now seems matters most in college sports.
Remember when CJ Spiller stayed for his senior year just to get his degree. I think James Davis stayed to obtained his degree to. Some players gave up millions for their education and to obtain that degree. I believe several players under TB and Dabo stayed for their final year so they could graduate from college. That’s a rare goal these days for college athletes unless you come to Clemson and you allow Dabo and his staff to influence you future goals.
I am so proud to be a part of Clemson!
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 12:40 PM
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Great points made in your post. It unfortunate that many players are chasing the big time $$$$$ which now seems matters most in college sports.
Remember when CJ Spiller stayed for his senior year just to get his degree. I think James Davis stayed to obtained his degree to. Some players gave up millions for their education and to obtain that degree. I believe several players under TB and Dabo stayed for their final year so they could graduate from college. That’s a rare goal these days for college athletes unless you come to Clemson and you allow Dabo and his staff to influence you future goals.
I am so proud to be a part of Clemson!
You look at TE9 who could have went to the league a year earlier! The kid came back for reasons bigger than just money! Yeah, he wanted to increase his draft stock by working on his game; but he didn't leave to do so. CU had an excellent chance of challenging for a NC and he came back for himself and his teammates!
NFL - not for long! Get that degree from a respectable university so you have something to bring to the table after football!
You posted some great examples of some awesome Clemson men who did it the right way! And shout out to all the players who were here who got their degrees then transferred. You can't knock them at all. A Nyles Pinckney and Jordan Williams gave it their all and did all that was asked and contributed to the team. They (in my opinion) looked at the depth chart and saw fewer opportunities as upperclassmen and left! Just a couple examples of how it can be done; and done with respect and long term goals in mind.
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110%er [6692]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 12:26 PM
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Very few people that go to college really want an education. It's just a hurdle of life.
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All-Pro [686]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 8:02 PM
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This should be a larger part of the discussion but not necessarily just for athletes. For the most part, a college degree is needed to participate in corporate America, plenty of other routes for sure, but in most industries if you plan to be upper middle class or above, a 4 year degree is the minimum.
Does it need to be that way? No, but college is a huge industry and they have an interest maintaining the status quo. As someone with two kids entering college in a few years, the costs are frankly ridiculous.
Since 1980, college tuition and fees are up 1,200%, while the Consumer Price Index (CPI) for all items has risen by only 236%. Getting out of hand…
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 8:23 PM
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CS73 - My daughter just graduated last year from Coker College. Navigating paying that and looking at my son who will be in college in a few years! As you said: "ridiculous" money!
If my son were to get a strike of lightning and became a good enough athlete to go to say: "Clemson"! I could guarantee you one thing: "even if some whispers and talks were happening outside the program he would be getting advised to stay at Clemson"!
No thinking about "right now or the next couple years money"! No. Instead, it's; the next 40 or so years of money we would be advising him on. Work hard in your sport and try and maximize it and get any extra you earn. But, get your degree and make contacts with people you can network with in the future.
You have to play the statistics on the odds of making the professional level in sports. Then making the pros and staying in the pros for any length of time(is something else entirely). So play the numbers and get that one thing "you can control". Especially if it's going to be essentially free!
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 1:05 PM
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There is this! And the Lane Kiffin comment that basically spelled it out; "promises are made to the athlete but not in writing"! The kid leaves and now is stuck in the portal unless someone picks them up.
I feel bad but I also feel certain we will hear kids coming out with stories about promises that were made for them to leave the school they were at: "only to find unfulfilled promises on the other end"! What does that player do at that time; if his old school is done with them? Or if the NIL money they thought was coming never came and no other school picks them up?
https://www.outkick.com/lane-kiffin-hopes-players-get-their-money-from-nil/
https://www.hotsr.com/news/2021/dec/15/latest-nil-twist-millions-being-pledged-to/ Latest NIL twist: Millions being pledged to college athletes AUSTIN, Texas -- Six months after one of the biggest rule changes in the history of college sports, money for athletes is being pledged by the millions in a development that has raised concerns about the role of wealthy alumni eager to back their beloved alma maters.
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Legend [16044]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 5:21 PM
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I posted last year if Clemson’s Football program were brought down from the top 4 or 5 it would be due to outside forces. NlL, the TP both which many schools have used as a negative recruiting tool against Clemson’s Culture. Unfortunately even the parents are willing to sale out and go for the money instead Clemson’s culture of honesty, integrity, character, work ethic and education.
College football has hit a chaotic phase. Unfortunately IMO I feel Clemson is on the losing end because Dabo is not going to stoop to the level of many slim ball HC’s.
I hope I am over exaggerating but when Lane Kiffin believes the storm is coming then I tend to take what he says seriously.
I am disappointed for the fans, the players and the coaches. But in the long run I believe the players are the losers. The money will eventually run out and many of those player’s will not have an education to fall back on or their college football contacts.
The NCAA should blow up the current college athletics model. Get some quality leadership in place and restructure a new model without NlL or the TP. Reduce coaches salaries. If the NCAA sees it is necessary put a cap on the amount college football programs can coaches during a season. This would include past coaches. Maybe schools would be a little more patient before firing coaches. Just some ideas! I do not know the answer’s but one thing I believe is college athletics has to make some major changes before it’s to late to change.
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110%er [7221]
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Re: Ah, When Players Wanted an Education!
Dec 28, 2021, 6:58 PM
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WUeagle86 - well said! And, a lot more efficiently than I tend to make posts!
The early evidence is scary for those kids who do not get picked up. Well, at least for those kids who are not okay with having to pay for school themselves! Think about it; you could walk away from school relatively debt-free with a degree in hand. If nothing else; you have a leg up on your peers who are likely in debt somewhere in the 150 - 220K range.
Giving that up without any guaranteed contract is risky. Yes, scholarships are yearly! But, by in large if you are in the program and doing what you need to do in terms of attendance to class, practice, workouts, etc. you are good to go for as long as you are eligible. I've heard of coaches not renewing kid's scholarships: "yes"! But, typically that's a kid that isn't doing any or enough of the above and is holding up a spot for someone that would appreciate it more. And who would be willing to work and get it done? That's where character evaluation before they get on campus comes in.
The issue so many people have with the NFL - besides some of the Social Justice protests is - "they say the pro players only want the money"! What will those same people be saying years from now if this thing goes unchecked?
Some things that can also include - besides what you put:
1. Make it more difficult! Require more reason to transfer w/o penalty. Sure, they will be able to do it if motivated enough, but going through the motions needs to be required.
2. The portal is only open from Jan 1 to March 31 for football. Obviously, for other sports, it would be adjusted. This gives the school time to recruit the portal for any departures they have. It also doesn't blindside coaches during the season. Most players want a good video to show a prospective future team.
3. Some language about not being allowed to go to a school within the conference you play in! Yes. Yep.
4. The language of the contract of a players NIL should be reviewable by the NCAA. The specific terms and conditions and payout amounts/methods/increments/frequency/etc.
All - hopefully, deterrents! A determined kid/player is still going to go. But, put some type of challenge out there. Some type of deterrent is better than none. Again, it will do nothing to stop a kid transferring out for honorable reasons or who is determined enough. It may make some kids who get influenced by the grass being greener though a little pause! Maybe/maybe not - but do something. If not this; something else. It's unchecked and out of control right now!
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Oculus Spirit [81418]
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Tiger-damus-love it.***
Dec 28, 2021, 1:12 PM
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