Being a fifth year senior, I remember when the tickets that the students received did not require a student ID. I know this has nothing to do with the IPTAY issue, but why was this changed and since our tuition, joining IPTAY and being a huge factor/reason why there is a football team at all, why should we not be allowed to disburse our tickets as we please?

I'm not sure who made this change or how it came to be, but all I know is it suddenly happened and never heard any discussion or debate among the student body. No idea if you have any knowledge of this, but I figured I'd make mention of it. Oh yea, you can ask Bill that question too, even though I see him a couple times a semester and have yet to confront him on the issue.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 16, 2007 at 01:32 PM EDT #

Gotta agree with 96Tiger. The point of student ticketing is to have students in the stadium - not to provide students with the opportunity to sell tickets for financial gain.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=1546>tomerafan</a> on August 16, 2007 at 03:15 PM EDT #

I am just curious as to why, all of a sudden without discussion, the policy was changed. The only reason I have a problem with it is because if students don't go at all, then the ticket is wasted. My fraternity has a block and there are at least 15-30 tickets per game that are going unused because we cannot give them to Alumni, friends from out of town or family from out of town. (I myself am from Texas and feel it's fair, especially since I paid out of state tuition for numerous years, that MY ticket is able to be used by my parents or my friends tickets, who are not attending the game, be used by my parents). Yes, some tickets are sold for a profit, but aren't tickets that IPTAY members get also sold for a profit?

I just don't see the point of restricting "student" tickets. The people that used to buy these student tickets were either going to buy them from students or some shmo that sits in front of Subway with a handful of tickets. I know students sell them cheaper and can use the extra $10-$15 bucks.

I understand the situation from both sides but also feel as much as we pay in tuition to keep the campus pretty, pay the IPTAY fee at the beginning or yearly to acquire tickets before students, the campus sweep, etc. that do for the University, you'd think they could allow us to have control over who uses OUR ticket.

It's probably a mute point to bring up because the Administration does whatever the hell they want and the student body has no opinion even though they say we do and most students could careless. It's the fact of the matter that I am trying to bring up.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 16, 2007 at 03:34 PM EDT #

It is like buying tickets for the Jacksonville Jaguars. If you want a great seat then you've to pay the price. If I want to have a seat in the area I wish then I will pay the extra to obtain the seat(s). We've been very fortunate at Clemson. My friend was turned away at Florida this past year for Season Tickets. It cost $5,000 just to get a season ticket opportunity. Granted if you had tickets since the Stone Age you don't have to pay that price. At least Clemson gives different donor levels. This will work at Clemson.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=68377>jgreenaw79</a> on August 16, 2007 at 04:03 PM EDT #

Mickey or Anyone:

To ask an alternative question: What if an IPTAY donor has been giving at the $250 - 500 level since the early 70s (when Clemson was HORRID), and (like my father) he or or she has continued to do so for over 30 years? Is his or her $7000 (ballpark figure) cummulative contribution not worth the same -- in terms of loyatly, consistency and dedication -- as someone who makes a good enough salary to contribute $10K a year right out of college or in their 30s -- and who now demand seats in the lower deck?

Not all Clemson fans are in the position to contribute $10K a year to sit in the lower decks? Are they? I am ALL for progress, and I know change is coming. I am curious to see how big of an impact the change will be.

We have tickets in section UN on the 35ish (closer to the 30th) in the North Stands (towards the Hill end), and my Dad has purchased this set nearly his entire adult life. He sent 2 kids to Clemson for 3 total degrees. We have sat in those two seats my whole life (born in 73, been going to games and sitting with my Dad since 80). He also has two tickets in K section beside the band. My sister and brother-in-law (also IPTAY members) sit in those seats.

We don't (as a family) make enough to give above the $1000 level, but we've given (first as one man, now as 4 audlts) what we could for over 30 years. Should we be pushed aside b/c we can't pony up to compete with the rich people who lavish money on the U? I love Clemson, the U, the athletic department, and everything about Tigertown. I work here! But if we have to pay upwards of $1000 just to have the right to purchase our usual tickets, I am not sure what we'll decide as a family.

I would love to hear some fair opinion on this from you, Mickey . . . not to be bitter or start a diatribe war, but to hear all sides in a constructive manner. Do the ones with the gold make the rules?

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=59547>CuFuller4</a> on August 16, 2007 at 04:21 PM EDT #

We've moved from LOT 1, to LOT 10, and now to LOT 4 this year. I don't get as upset about parking as I do the thought of losing my tickets through a price war I can't hope to fairly win. If that is the case. All talk until I see the plan.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=59547>CuFuller4</a> on August 16, 2007 at 04:40 PM EDT #

Within two years this entire issue will be dead. If we win, maybe sooner.

People hate change, ultimately if you want a ticket you will get one. If you want a good ticket pay up, otherwise enjoy the upper deck.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=24528>truetiger1998</a> on August 16, 2007 at 04:46 PM EDT #

Within two years this entire issue will be dead. If we win, maybe sooner.

People hate change, ultimately if you want a ticket you will get one. If you want a good ticket pay up, otherwise enjoy the upper deck.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=24528>truetiger1998</a> on August 16, 2007 at 04:47 PM EDT #

Can you give us more info on the Calculation you are talking about for CUfuller??

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=47844>hocysk8er723</a> on August 16, 2007 at 05:01 PM EDT #

Just another tidbit on the whole student ID issue: student athletes don't use "student" tickets, but get their own tickets which are generally some of the best seats in Death Valley. Along with that, Rally Cats, Cheerleaders and football players are allotted two tickets per game to give out to whom they chose.

I am no objecting to these above criteria, but why is it that they have the opportunity to sell their tickets, but not the rest of the student body?

I suppose this is preparing me for when I finally graduate, make crap for a salary, have student loans to pay off and can't attend football games due to lack of funds, even though, as stated above the university wants students in the stands. Why do they want students? Because they make the most noise so it's almost impossible for the opponents to call audibles, call their plays, etc. I assume a recent graduate, who still has friends in school that COULD get them an extra STUDENT ticket, stops their excessive tailgating and loudness at football games once they earn that diploma (sarcasm). All I'm saying is whether a student uses his ticket or not is up to the student, but why should it be the university telling them they can't give it away, or God-forbid, sell it to make a couple extra bucks.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 16, 2007 at 05:26 PM EDT #

Or you can email me at Swords@clemson.edu

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=59547>CuFuller4</a> on August 16, 2007 at 05:43 PM EDT #

TigerTC -- Did you go to Clemson, have you ever paid tuition? Participated in Tigerama? First Friday Parade? lived and breathed Clemson sports for five years that the majority of your time, money and efforts went to tailgating, supporting your teams and attending every event possible?

Though they might be "student" tickets, I gurantee you that my "student" ticket is better than the ticket you have. I get to sit on the lower deck for games such as South Carolina, the Texas A&M game, Miami and others like it. It would have been great if I could have brought an Alumni that only comes to town once or twice a year into those games with me, because being in charge of the "student" block for my fraternity, I tossed out over 15 tickets to each of those games. I wouldn't have sold them or given them to our opponents, I would have let someone that loves this school just as much as me, but at the last minute decided to make a trip to Clemson and didn't have time to buy a "date" ticket, use it. If they are called STUDENT tickets, should it not be thier choice to use them how they will?

I do not like attacking people nor posting hateful comments, but sometimes the ignorance and lack of thoughtful reasoning perplexes me. Do some of you think critically or are you used to another entity doing that for you? Can you not understand the situation of others? Or are you too dense and close minded to fully comprehend such matters?

CUFuller4 has a messed up situation and I completely understand/agree and empathize with him because knowing him personally, he is one of the biggest Clemson Football fans ever. If the situation happened to arise where he lost his seating, would it not be fair that if he knew students that had a couple extra tickets because their friend was going out of town that he should not be allowed to attend the game in their stead?

I'm not going to keep rambling about this because it is a mute point that none of us can fix/change anyway. I just don't understand some people.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 16, 2007 at 06:06 PM EDT #

Did Robertson just ask TC if he "went to Clemson"? And then insinuate that he didn't? What the heck is that about? I can assure you that he did. You asked five ridiculous questions of an alumnus. The answer to all of them is yes. I'll spare you the English lesson on "mute" versus "moot" because I'm sure you probably don't care. And because correcting people on a blog is so 2002.

I would also say - and I'm trying to be objective here - that if you regularly have people that are putting in for block tickets and not using them, then you need to run your block procedures better. End of story. You and your block and the people involved are contributing to the empty seat problem - not Clemson.

Now, constructively, I will say that there's only one good thing that the University of Maryland has going for it, and that's it's ticketing system. If you get student tickets and don't use them, then you get bumped down the student ticket food chain. And you build up priority points over the course of the year and get better seating by going to more events including non-revenue sports. That's the way student ticketing should be handled.

I don't even think that the economics of student tickets could allow for unfettered transfer of tickets because then even more students would want tickets and some would sell them, leaving others out in the cold.

Finally, Robertson, just because *you* wouldn't give your "student ticket" to an opposing fan...and I truly believe that you wouldn't based on your posts on this blog...there are indeed students who would, especially premium lower deck seats for a high-value game. You mean to tell me that some students wouldn't sell their FSU student ticket for $100 on Ebay? That could buy a lot of beer and Todaro's.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=1546>tomerafan</a> on August 16, 2007 at 06:44 PM EDT #

tomerafan... just wanted to say kudos for telling us about Maryland's policy. As a former member of Central Spirit and non-revenue sports director, I like that policy quite a bit because it rewards fans of Clemson Sports, not just people who feel entitlement.

When I went to Clemson, ID was required for student tickets although they often didn't check. But blocks had the option of purchasing a limited number of guest tickets for most games and if that policy still exists, it solves the problem that Robertson is bringing up about family members, etc.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=3465>kgpittm</a> on August 16, 2007 at 07:43 PM EDT #

My step brother has had season tickets since 2001. First for 2 years he was sitting in the corner in the top deck lower like on row G right over the band (at this time he was not an IPTAY member), they counted him as a general public member. When he became an IPTAY member he was moved from over in the lower corner to section L still in the top deck. He didnt like the fact that he was moved, but since he has had these seats, he has not wanted to move. He likes the upper deck, and would not move to the lower deck. I know this is all a mute point but, He called the ticket office to see where his media guide was, b/c it didnt come with his season tickets. He asked the lady would he be bothered with this new plan, she said more than likely not.
He just upped his giving to orange this season. IF he could, with no questions asked, he would given 15K just to give and to help, not just to get good season. He wants to help the greatest school in the Nation and ACC.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=35328>Tigergal27SC</a> on August 16, 2007 at 10:11 PM EDT #

"TigerTC -- Did you go to Clemson, have you ever paid tuition? Participated in Tigerama? First Friday Parade? lived and breathed Clemson sports for five years that the majority of your time, money and efforts went to tailgating, supporting your teams and attending every event possible?"

Yes. Yes (for two degrees). Yes. When I went to Clemson students had to show IDs to use student tickets unless they were specially marked "date tickets." And I've lived and breathed Clemson football for a helluva lot more than five years.

I don't care if your student ticket is better than my ticket, but I personally love my tickets in Section UC, Row J (immediately behind the students) because I'm still in the excitement and electricity of the student section -- the student section, which should be full of students (which is why they should be restricted to students).

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=604>Tiger TC</a> on August 16, 2007 at 11:22 PM EDT #

The Objective:
*Align Clemson with other BCS schools. Clemson is the only top 20 school in terms attendance that has not implemented a new plan. - SO THAT IS NOT A REASON TO CHANGE! WE ARE DIFFERENT AND THAT PROVES WE CAN BE AND STILL BE SUCCESSFUL. MORE MONEY WILL NOT MAKE THE PLAYERS OR COACHES BETTER. PISSING OFF FANS AND ALUM WILL PRODUCE AN INFERIOR UNIVERSITY AND ATTENDANCE. GREED IS NOT CLEMSON. $10,000 DOLLARS TODAY DOES NOT EQUATE TO $100 FOR 20 OR 30 YEARS IN THOSE DOLLARS AND LOYALTY.

*Create the least amount of problems for all. BULL CRAP! THAT IS THE CHICKEN WAY OUT. EITHER BE COMPLETELY BE FAIR AND RE-ASSIGN EVERYONE OR DON'T DO ANYTHING. DON'T BOW DOWN TO THE JOHNNY COME LATELY'S (WHO WILL BE GONE JUST AS QUICKLY) WHO WAVE SOME MORE DOLLARS. I ALONG WITH HUNDREDS OF OTHERS WERE GUILTY OF SELECTIVE SEAT RE-ASSIGNMENT TO WORSE SEATS WHEN THE AD DECIDED TO MOVE THE STUDENTS BEHIND THE BASKETBALL TEAM. RATHER THAN BE FAIR AND RE-ASSIGN ALL AND MAKE THINGS EQUITABLE THEY PUNISHED THE MINORITY. BACK IN WWII A GUY NAMED HITLER CAME AFTER THE JEWS AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING (THEY WERE THE MINORITY), THEN HE CAME AFTER THE COMMUNISTS AND NOBOBY SAID ANYTHING, THEN HE CAME AFTER THE SOCIALISTS AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING AND THEN WHEN THEY CAME AFTER ... THERE WAS NOBODY TO SAY ANYTHING. DEFEND INJUSTICE WHETHER YOU ARE AFFECTED NOW OR NOT, OR ONE DAY YOU WILL BE.

*Provide opportunities for larger donors to purchase better seats. THEY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES. LET THEM PAY THERE DUES IN LOYALTY AND TIME. THERE WOULD NOT BE A PRODUCT THEY WOULD WANT TO PAY FOR IF IT WEREN'T FOR THE PEOPLE THAT THIS GREED WANTS TO DISPLACE. TODAY'S DOLLARS DON'T COMPARE TO PAST DOLLARS, SWEAT EQUITY, LOYALTY AND SUPPORT.

*Reward longevity and loyalty. HOW BY DISREGARDING TRUE CONTRIBUTION IN REAL DOLLARS AND LOYALTY AND MOVING PEOPLE WHO BUILT THE PROGRAM THE WEALTHY NOW WANT TO ENJOY BY WAVING SOME NEW DOLLARS. DO YOU THINK THOSE PEOPLE ARE AVID FANS AND COME TO THE GAMES. FROM EXPERIENCE I CAN TELL YOU THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT RARELY COME TO THE GAMES, ARRIVE LATE, LEAVE EARLY AND GIVE THEIR TICKETS TO THE OPPOSING TEAM. HOW DOES THIS HELP CLEMSON. OUR A.D. HAS ALLOWED THIS CRAP FOR YEARS. PEOPLE FROM UNC AND DUKE JOIN IPTAY TO GET ACC BBALL TICKETS AND DON'T COME TO THE GAMES. THESE $10,000 DONORS ARE NOT FANS AND SUPPORTERS. THIS IS PURE, UNADULTERATED GREED AND NOT CLEMSON. THIS DOES NOT HELP BUT HURTS CLEMSON.

*Generate revenue. AT WHAT COST. REVENUE DOES NOT NECESSARILTY TRANSLATE INTO PROFIT OR A BETTER PRODUCT. THIS IS CLEARLY ONE OF THOSE CASES. WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE SELLING CLEMSON FOR TODAY'S DOLLARS WHEN THE PRODUCT AND SUPPORT WILL BE WORSE FOR SHORT-SIGHTEDNESS AND DISLOYALTY?

What This Does Not Do
*This is not a re-seating. You will be given a chance to remain in your current seats. BULL CRAP. IF YOU GO TO ANOTHER SEAT THAT IS RE-SEATING. A ROSE BY ANY OTHER NAME. AND THE ROBBER SAID YOU WILL BE GIVEN A CHANCE TO LIVE IF YOU CAN OUTRUN THE BULLET FROM THIS GUN HELD TO YOUR HEAD.

*This is not a PSL (Personal Seat License) like some have implemented. WHO GIVES A SHXX

*They did not make different prices for different seat locations. WHY? THEN WHAT IS EQUITABLE ABOUT IT?

*They did not sit back with the status quo and get lapped in the process. WHY ARE WE SO CONCERNED ABOUT OTHERS AND BEING ME TOO? WHAT DOES 'get lapped in the process' MEAN? DOUBLE TALK, SPINNING TALK.

*According to the data I have received, only 37% of the ticket holders will be financially impacted. SO, THAT IS ONLY 18,000 PEOPLE OR SO. LET'S CHOOSE A SMALLER NUMBER TO BE UNFAIR TO AND HOPE ENOUGH DON'T COMPLAIN. UNFAIR IS UNFAIR WHETHER IT IS YOU PERSONALLY OR SOMEONE ELSE.

*However, it really affects everyone because for the first time in a long time you now have incentive to give more if you wanted to get better tickets. In the past it was difficult for some to see the need to give more if they would not personally benefit. Now some will not feel shutout by the process and will have the opportunity to give more and receive more. YOU HAVE ALWAYS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE MORE AND STILL DO. A JOHNNY COME LATELY SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DISPLACE SOMEONE JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE MONEY. THE CONTRIBUTIONS ARE NOT THE SAME IN ONE TIME DOLLARS WITHOUT NO RECOGNITION OF ANYTHING ELSE. AGAIN THERE WOULD BE NO PRODUCT THEY WOULD WANT TO BUY OTHERWISE. IF THAT IS THE CASE GO IN THE MIDDLE OF A FIELD SOMEWHERE AND PAY A FARMER $10,000 AND SIT THERE AND ENJOY IT. BECAUSE THAT IS ALL THEY WOULD HAVE WITHOUT THE CONTRIBUTORS BEFORE THEM.

What is Right About This
*I think loyalty is important but so is fairness. Is it fair that someone may be a Heisman Donor ($10,000) and sit in the upper deck while some give $140 and sit on the 50-yard line? YES, IF THE OTHER HAS BEEN GIVING LONG ENOUGH AND HAS HELPED MAKE THE PRODUCT WORTH PAYING $10,000 FOR. 30X'S140 = $4200 OR MORE LIKE $16,000 IN TODAY'S DOLLARS BUT THE INFRASTURCTURE WAS PAID FOR BY THESE PEOPLE IN ATTENDNCE, SUPPORT, CONCESSIONS, ETC. PLUS THIS SEEMS LIKE AN EXTREME, EXAGGERATD CASE AND NOT THE NORM.

*This season 774 tickets between the 25-yard lines will be given to those who give $140 a year while five people that give $10,000 have tickets in the upper decks. PERFECTLY FAIR. WHY LET 5 RICHER PEOPLE DISPLACE 775 LOYAL PEOPLE. IF THE CLEMSON PEOPLE WHO ARE DECIDING THIS DON'T SEE THIS THEN PLEASE LET'S FIRE THEM BY DISPLACING THEM.

The Competition Still Charges More
They studied all of the top 25 powers and the competition in the ACC and SEC and found that an average ticket on the 35-yard line at Clemson will still be lower than Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Virginia and Florida State. Here are the numbers for an average combined cost of a ticket plus donations per ticket on the 35-yard line would cost at the competition:

Tennessee-$1,546
Georgia-$1,157.50
Florida-$1,157.50
South Carolina-$995.00
Virginia-$850.00
Florida State-$713.00
Clemson-$649.00

What to Expect Next Week
You will be flooded with information next week. They will have a press conference that will allow access to the print and electronic media in an attempt that they will help relay the information to the public.

You will also get a full and detailed account of the new plan in next week’s Orange and White. Also www.clemsontigers.com will have a presentation segment on the new plan.

Options
After you acquire the information you need for your personal situation you will have four options:

Option 1-Retain your current seats by making the required contribution to the IPTAY Seat Equity Plan.

Option 2-Move to an area that has been identified as premium seating or upgrade to better seats.

Option 3-Move to an area that requires a lower priority contribution or downgrade.

Option 4- Move to an area that has less or no priority contribution.

Summary
I have seen the charts and graphs for each section and each level of commitment but it would be too difficult to get into each here on this space. You will have to research your situation next week but I wanted to give you a little heads up on what to look for and what you will hear. Hopefully this has been helpful.

Not everyone will be happy but the only perfection solution that would make everyone happy is to have a stadium with 85,000 seats on the 50-yard line and we know that stadium would look funny. So they have spent time to develop a plan that will benefit the most. I hope you are one of the ones that will benefit from the new plan. One thing I think most can agree on is the idea of IPTAY and the students athletes will benefit and that is more important than any one individual’s needs.

One final note, Bill D’Andrea is coming on our morning show tomorrow (Friday at 7:00 am). If you have anything you would like us to ask concerning this issue please feel free to post below or e-mail me at mickeyplyler@hotmail.com and I will try to get your question answered. You can hear the show in the upstate on 104.9 FM or online at www.wccpfm.com.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=3520>bparent</a> on August 17, 2007 at 12:15 PM EDT #

That is the problem. Everyone compares Clemson or this situation to "someone" else's situation. Yea, great, LSU you have to pay more, they also have 25,000+ students -- Clemson does not. When was the last time that Death Valley was completely full (not sold-out -- FULL)?

The only agruement I'm receiving from people is that, "when I was there it was this way" or "this school does it this way" you are providing no proof that the way the system is working is not imposing on the students right of THEIR ticket. Stop comparing the situation to others and saying, "we have it good" because ultimately, that is what has happened to America. "Well, you know, in America, we have it great, so don't complain if the gov't takes a couple civil liberties away, think of those over in Africa." Which is a stupid, ignorant and completely absurd statement. Read this and relate it to the issues that Mickey trys to bring up when he disagrees with issue but others sit back and accept it:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage."

Though that might be a little extreme for a university, it is still a governmental institution that tries to manipulate and control the people for what is rightfully theirs. If the university is not willing to accept that when they give a student a ticket it is no longer their property, then they need to do away with student seating all together and make the students buy a ticket so that it can be theirs. All of the gray area only causes a greater problem within the system and is all up for interpretation, much like the goverment of the United States or the Bible for that matter.

Either way, the university shouldn't give students tickets if they aren't allowed to do what they want with it, because if they can't, it's not theirs. Think about it and stop using your typical cliche's.

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 17, 2007 at 12:34 PM EDT #

Ah, you are completely right and I am just an unintelligent blow hard... I'm glad you have opened my eyes to the leftist point of view of life. I will always bow down to the policies set before me by those that are better than me (administration and government).

Posted by <a href=http://tigernet.com/view/profile.do?id=67061>RobertsonCU</a> on August 17, 2007 at 03:28 PM EDT #