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CU Medallion [58921]
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CU Guru [1190]
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Amen***
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May 18, 2024, 2:12 PM
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All-In [30142]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
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May 19, 2024, 12:35 AM
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I agree with that but I think it goes even deeper than what he speaks of, and even outside of interpreting God, but of existence itself. The scientific version is, "there's no way to remove the observer from the observed." Both sides matter.
In terms of understanding God, I think cultural and social information certainly helps us to understand what others thought and think, but short of God speaking directly to someone, the message is ALWAYS transmitted through the filter of another person, verbally or through writing. It's game of 'telephone,' of varying degrees.
The more unsettling thing though is that, even in an instance of direct contact with God, how can one even then be certain they understand the message? How many times has a boss given an employee direct instructions, which the employee honestly mis-understood? Consider this episode from 1 Samuel 15:
19 [Samuel:] "Why did you not obey the Lord? Why did you pounce on the plunder and do evil in the eyes of the Lord?”
20 “But I did obey the Lord,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the Lord assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king.
But Saul got it wrong by leaving King Agag alive. God meant literally "every man," not figuratively "every man." So miscommunication is always a potential, and Saul lost his kingship over his mistake.
26 But Samuel said to him, “...You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!”
We have filters on reality, too. Our 5 senses. If I wear rose-colored glasses, everything I see has a rose tint. And our own 5 senses filter reality, whatever that may truly be, in the very same way. We are as important as 'reality' in our interpretation of reality. Can't remove the impact of the observer from the observed. They're intimately intertwined.
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Hall of Famer [23061]
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Using his logic and reasoning,...
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May 19, 2024, 7:51 AM
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....There is no absolute truth, only our attempt to decide what is true. So, all truth is relative. Well, if there is no truth, how do I know what he said is true? What he said, by his own words, is only true as you and I interpret it to be true. What he said has no meaning in itself. It only as meaning as you and I interpret it to have whatever meaning we want it to have. So, what he said is, "I am spouting some gibberish. What I am saying has no meaning other than whatever meaning you assign to it. So, it is really just you taking my words and interpreting them to mean whatever you want them to mean."
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: Using his logic and reasoning,...
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May 19, 2024, 7:59 AM
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Nothing in what he said means there is no absolute truth. You started with a major straw man.
Whatever "is" even if there is no god still is. You can call that an absolute truth.
Furthermore, you want to assert that god is the absolute truth yet none of you can demonstrate or agree on what that truth is. It sounds like he is absolutely correct that you guys are making the bible say whatever you want.
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Hall of Famer [23061]
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Sorry, you missed my point.
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May 19, 2024, 1:18 PM
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He said the Bible doesn't say anything. It is the people who interpret the Bible who say what it means.
So, using his logic, he didn't say anything. It is the people who interpret what he says who say something.
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: Sorry, you missed my point.
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May 19, 2024, 1:32 PM
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That's what you got out of it and say I'm missing the point?
interesting.
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Orange Blooded [2244]
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Re: Using his logic and reasoning,...
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May 19, 2024, 6:03 PM
[ in reply to Using his logic and reasoning,... ] |
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That's not what he said at all. You clearly did not watch the entire video.
He gave a great example of what he was talking about with slavery in the bible. To the writers it was an accepted practice. Today we've renegotiated with the text and it is unacceptable to the god of the bible.
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All-In [30142]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 2:37 PM
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The more I ponder it, the more "seeing through a glass darkly" becomes incredibly profound. Frighteningly so.
Admitting that one knows only a part of something is easy. That's safe and comforting, as long as one thinks the part they know is accurate. "I'll just learn the rest later."
But, if one interprets "seeing darkly" not as a partial understanding of reality, or truth, but as EVERYTHING I know is shaded, and incomplete, well, that's a LOT scarier, and a lot more unsettling.
It's like those rose-colored glasses. If everything I see is "rose-tinted", or "darkly", how can I trust anything I see? It's ALL affected.
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Legend [18065]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
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May 19, 2024, 4:08 PM
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I like that his statement, "It's a trickle, it's a stream, it's a torrent" is something he illustrates with his own meaningless words.
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Hall of Famer [24613]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
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May 19, 2024, 5:06 PM
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The easiest away to not accept what is seen is to claim sight is not possible. It's an unassailable claim, but never believed.
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 5:55 PM
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>It's an unassailable claim, but never believed.
Sure, kinda like "jesus is right over there guys, you just have to believe"
Definition of unassailable when you don't have to provide the evidence, we just don't believe what you aren't providing.
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Orange Blooded [2244]
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 6:26 PM
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It's a pretty funny claim too when you have other believers on here literally saying they realize they don't have good evidence, and can't explain why they believe. but yeah sure, it's "clearly seen".
uhuh.
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Hall of Famer [24613]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 9:44 PM
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Just to keep us reminded: I offered to send you more evidence than you can assimilate in a week. You turned it down because - your words - internet. Claiming blindness.
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 10:01 PM
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lol, not what happened. We went over this before, but you'll continue to lie about it.
Furthermore, does any of that evidence you have amount to anything more than claims that can not be verified?
You know it doesn't.
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Hall of Famer [24613]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 19, 2024, 10:23 PM
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Yessir. The evidence is overwhelming. Not everyone chooses to accept it, but it's there, as clearly as OJ killed those two. Which some people wont accept. You turned it down. You know and I know it. I had the package ready, needing only a label. You said, "Nah, i read my internet guys." Willful blindness. Which is your right.
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 20, 2024, 6:41 AM
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It’s amazing how much apologist will lie for their faith.
Claims that can’t be verified are not overwhelming evidence. Especially when not a single source in the NT even claims to be an eyewitness to Jesus’ life/death.
You can’t show a single verifiable fact of any of the supernatural bits yes it’s overwhelming?
Sure buddy.
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Hall of Famer [24613]
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CU Guru [1190]
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Re: The Bible doesn't "say so", we do.
May 20, 2024, 7:42 AM
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you would be a red piller
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